You claimed that I had made a comment about Bush. I did not. Then you claimed that I was objecting to people giving their opinion. I was not. In fact, I was giving my opinion.

If you have a comment about the subject at hand, I will be glad to debate it with you. I have, as you can see, made some points that can be debated. So far, all you have done is try to twist my words and imply that I don't know what I am talking about. I await anxiously to see if you have anything at all to say on the subject or are just trolling.

You said that right after someone posted the link to the Bush story. Since you're saying that your comment did not apply to Bush, are you saying that Bush is not a conservative? If so, what did the following comment mean?

I find the whole thing absolutely silly. There's been absolutely no indication that ANYONE wants to ban the song or anything of the sort, yet you are oh so quick to jump in and try to use it as yet another thing to bash Bush and/or unnamed conservatives about.

Yep, I like to debate. I admit it. I do it for a living even. I made a post that was controversial hoping someone would debate me.

Since you apparently have no interest in doing so, can you please just shut up? I mean, seriously, if you want to discuss the issue, I am here and willing and able.

Brilliant! Get caught in a lie, and then tell me to shut the fuck up. Gee, I wonder how that would go over in the court room.

But seriously, you REALLY want to have an argument about this? How does this sound: your point about "general conservative thinking" was disproven in this very thread by the fact that you have yet to name a person you consider a conservative who wants ban the Spanish version of the anthem.

And let's not forget that you go on decrying "conservatives" for trying to make other people the same as them, while you define conservatives as people who are trying to other people the same as them. That's called circular logic, and it's no way to argue. Did they not teach you that in the law school?

My God, Krem, your asshole nature is really showing through today. Calling me a liar is a pretty fucking low blow. Where did I lie? What did I possibly say that could in any way be considered a lie? Fuck you.



Bush stated that the anthem should only be sung in English. ("I think the national anthem ought to be sung in English, and I think people who want to be a citizen of this country ought to learn English and they ought to learn to sing the national anthem in English.") Others have gone farther. Conservative columnists Michelle Malkin and David Hinckley have ranted against it, and others still want radio stations to not play it.

Here, once again, is my statement: "Everyone should be just like me, and everyone should think just like me, and I will use the laws to make everyone in America all alike." I even gave some examples as where that applies. There are certainly conservative commentators who wish to make it illegal to have a Spanish-speaking anthem, but they are admittedly the minority here. Still, my general statement -- and that's all I ever claimed it to be -- applies in principle.



Is that a sentence? Conservatives are trying to what other people the same as them? I can't understand what you are talking about. Even if I put in the word I think you left out, your argument seems circular to me. What's your point?

One of the problems with the internet is that it is so instant that sometimes you post without completely thinking.

I apologize for my anger, but calling me a liar is the biggest insult you could ever give me. I value my reputation for honesty and am proud of the fact that other attorneys and judges know they can count on my word. I firmly believe it is one of the reasons I am doing so well and why other attorneys refer clients to me.

I do not apologize for the points made in this thread, and stand by all of them.

Lawyer!?!?!?

Honest!?!?!?!?

what next? healthy food at mcdonalds?

There are a few of us! Remember, even Honest Abe Lincoln was a lawyer...

I find that being truthful and forthcoming helps me to make deals, because when I say I have a good case, they know they can believe me. I don't argue frivolous things, so I have had judges' clerks tell me they like it when I file motions because they know I really have something good to argue that probably is important. Because of these things, I am more successful in my practice, I believe.

Reputation in life in all things is very important, though -- the truth is always the best thing.

Liars may become Presidents -- the last two prove that -- but they are rarely well respected Presidents.

Statement #1:


Statement #2 (which implies that the statement about conservatives also applied to Bush):


Statement #3:

If that's not a lie, what is it?

Statement #4:
You never did say who exactly are the protesters here who are protesting the song.


The AP quote is wrong. Here's what Bush actually said:
Values are certainly judgement calls, but no more than that.


Name ONE conservative commentator who thinks like that.

The point is that you have a problem with a set of people because of the way you defined them, not because of how they define themselves. If I said that liberals are nothing but a bunch of hypocritical pinko commies, and then went on to rant about them for their hypocrisy and for their support of communists, it would have the same effect.

And don't play dumb; you know exactly what I'm talking about.

I see Groucho's point in this, Krem you twist the issue in order to deal with something that you can defend all the while it was not exactly related to the point posted.

G1: "all conservatives"
K1: Bush's Speech (B.S)
G2: Not B's S. but in B's and Conservative actions
K2: I shall not talk about his other actions, but only on the B.S. (No law's have passed)
G3: See G1
k3: No i'll deny your chance of winning by twisting again! We discuss movies here therefore we can talk about songs.

That's how i saw it anyways.

But continue, i enjoy reading your arguments.. except when they go beyond 250 words a response, then i just get too lazy.

Edit: I'm sure you may have gone against me and may have proven a point on the post above Krem, but as it exceed 250 words, I do not believe i'll read it...

Neo, like I said before, it's like this: what's the point of bringing up all those other supposed conservative sins, if the overall "logic" behind them doesn't even apply in this case?

I suddenly realised how much I've been over-estimating you guys. I thought y'all were much smarter than this.

No, Michael, not you too!

Was there any changes to the song beside the language?

Hm, I didn't realize Wyclef Jean was involved with the song.

But not so long ago [via Think Progress]:

[from American Dynasty, p 142]When visiting cities like Chicago, Milwaukee, or Philadelphia, in pivotal states, he would drop in at Hispanic festivals and parties, sometimes joining in singing “The Star-Spangled Banner” in Spanish, sometimes partying with a “Viva Bush” mariachi band flown in from Texas.

Bush not only listened to the Star-Spangled Banner in Spanish, he actually joined in. But I'm sure this was followed by a stiff rebuke about how the song should only be sung in English.

Star Spangled Banner = Not the National Anthem

The SSB is pretty much just a song. But the NA is a song that represents our country and should be sung in English.

*confused* I don't really get what you're trying to say.

In other news,:

D.C. = Not the Nation's Capital.

D.C. is pretty much just a district. But the Nation's Capital is a city that is the capital of this country and shouldn't have a crackhead as the mayor.

I think it's a mystery even to himself.

I'm so sorry, but what law says we have to speak English to be America? I could have sworn we didn't have an official language and are a nation built on the premise that people from all places in the world are welcome to bring and share their culture here.... Whoops. I forgot, this is a conservative white boy institute. No others allowed, huh?

Oh no... Don't spin this on me!

I'm just saying it should be sung in English because it sounds stupid in any other language

...............



Ok, great reasoning there, champ.

Well, im a latino and i think the NA should be sung in english and not spanish.

President Bush, 4/28/06: "I think the national anthem ought to be sung in English, and I think people who want to be a citizen of this country ought to learn English and they ought to learn to sing the national anthem in English."

But in his book American Dynasty (published long before this was an issue), Kevin Phillips notes that during Bush’s first presidential campaign, he would often sing the national anthem in Spanish. From pg. 142:

When visiting cities like Chicago, Milwaukee, or Philadelphia, in pivotal states, he would drop in at Hispanic festivals and parties, sometimes joining in singing “The Star-Spangled Banner” in Spanish, sometimes partying with a “Viva Bush” mariachi band flown in from Texas.

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