Even when taking things out of context you still can't make a valid argument.

Two seperate verses, two seperate ideas.

Umm what? 13 "And these you shall have in abomination among the birds, they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, the vulture, the osprey, 14 the kite, the falcon according to its kind, 15 every raven according to its kind, 16 the ostrich, the nighthawk, the sea gull, the hawk according to its kind, 17 the owl, the cormorant, the ibis, 18 the water hen, the pelican, the carrion vulture, 19 the stork, the heron according to its kind, the hoopoe, and the bat.

How are they seperate ideas? Why are you lying?

Is the point you're saying is that the Bible put a bat in together with a list of birds? I don't think they had expert animal knowledge back then... they saw a flying animal and it was classified as a bird then.

I am sure God would've had expert animal knowledge. Being omniscient and all.

You didn't present it in full context and I didn't feel like going to get my Bible.

And it is probably a difference in translations. Hardly proof that the Bible is false.

Just like day/time, animal classifications are human creations for order.

Just use bible.com :grin:

But yes, it does prove the bible is false. If it is God's word it should be flawless, it has too many flaws. Here is my THIRD favorite contradiction/error:

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Collosians 3:25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

vs.

Genesis 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
Exodus 2:25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.

Completely out of context. God is no respecter of persons, meaning he doesn't care if you are black, white, green or yellow. Rich or poor. A king or a begger.

He respected the offering Abel gave and the children of Israel for the obedience to Him.

Plainly obvious. Out of context.

OK, you're right... but what about my other 2 contradictions?

Star Wars, it's just a book. A book that has been retranslated many times, and was written by people who were very primative by our standards. Very few Chrsitians believe in the literal translation of the book. Arguing that god doesn't exist because of varoius contradictions in the book is a kind of meaningless argument, especially when there are better arguments to give.

I'm talking about the Christian God... not about god in general (which can't be proved or disproved). And any Christian who doesn't take it literally in my eyes is a hypocrite.

It believe in it all and don't view them as "just stories" as a few denominations believe.

They are fairly meaningless as well, but this debate tires me.

There are more important tasks at hand.

Really? You believe that a man lived inside a whale for some time? That the entire world was covered with water from a great flood and everyone drowned except the few on Noah's boat? That Adam and Eve were the only two people on earth and they had two sons and one of the sons married another woman who apparently came from nowhere? That Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt?

You don't think that some of these might have been legends handed down for generation, similar to other primitive cultures' legends about gods on Mount Olympus and leprechauns and flying serpents?

Why should your legends be more believable than these other ones? Why are you holding on to one set of legends and dismissing all the others? Because you were raised that way? Ancient Greeks were raised to believe in Zeus, and they were wrong, weren't they? I'm sure there were plenty of Ancient Greeks who were just as convinced in their legends as you are with yours.

I wouldn't call someone who does that a hypocrite. I was born and raised Catholic, and up until I left high school I went to church on a regular basis, but I never really believed in it. I went, and I prayed and all that good stuff, but it was more because I was forced to than because I actually believed there was somebody up there. I still sometimes go when I'm home visiting my mom, but moreso to please her than anything else. My view on it all is that it doesn't matter if you take all of the bible literally, some of it, or none at all. If God is really this "all forgiving" man, then it shouldn't matter. As Mike said, it's just a book.

Thanks for the plug. :pope:

The "Lord, liar or lunatic" argument is unsound because it uses a false dichotomy, or in this case a false trichotomy. In other words, the argument only allows for three possibilites when there are other alternatives. The argument only works for those who already believe in the divinity of Jesus because they can rule out the two options that conflict with their previously held beliefs.

Just out of curiosity, where did you learn of this argument?

I know now how it doesn't work out, but it just raises some thoughts. I heard it from some person in my church. They weren't using it as a main defending point or anything, it was just an interesting, but not accurate theory.

I believe in Aliens... strike that argument down!

What argument? If you believe in aliens or gods or leprechauns or invisible rabbits named Harvey, the burden is on you to prove it exists, not for someone else to prove it doesn't exist.

I have proved they exist... did you not see my masterpieces of documentaries? You should look them up... their titles are: "ET", "Men In Black", "Independence Day", and "War of the Worlds"

GOSH!

I really hate bumping this thread back up because discussions like this on the internet rarely produce anything but anger and disgust, but whatever.

How do you explain miracles? Especially those that have medical proof that can't be explained any other way except divine intervention? I've seen some in my circle of immediate family and friends.

First example: I have a friend who was seriously injured as a young child when he fell and fractured his skull. His parents rushed him to the local hospital where X-rays revealed his skull looked like an egg shell that had tiny cracks running through a large portion of it. Because of the seriousness of the situation he was rushed to another hospital in a larger city. During the trip his parents prayed in faith believing for his healing. When they arrived at the hospital new X-rays revealed his skull was perfectly normal. Is that easily explained?

Second example: A middle-aged friend of mine was diagnosed with Crohn's disease years ago. She was told she needed surgery but was hesitant to lose part of her intestines and use a colostomy bag for the rest of her life. After praying and believing God for her healing for a few months she was totally healed to the amazement of the doctors. Was she able to fool herself mentally into preventing masses of blood from flowing out of her rectum? That's not mind over matter.

Neither of these come from TV evangelists or anyone trying to get me to give them money. They are stories from close friends I've both known over 15 years that are honest, humble people.

Third example: My own wife was diagnosed with a form of arthritis that left her crippled and bed-ridden for almost a year. The doctors gave her no hope. They presribed pain-killers and anti-depressants and told her to make the best of it. We refused to give up and began to pray and believe for her to be healed. It wasn't immediate and it took a couple of years of gradually getting better, but my wife is healed! When doctors gave up, we experienced the power of God.

Mock all you want, but I've seen the power of Jesus Christ at work. It's not wishful thinking, but reality. God is no respecter of persons and what he did for my family and friends He can and wants to do for everyone.

Todd, but what about all the times when people prayed and God DIDN'T respond? What's the explanation then? Isn't God supposed to be all-loving?

In my view, even if one believes in God, they shouldn't expect miracles to happen. If God needs miracles to uphold people's faith, then what about free will? Aren't people supposed to be willing to believe in God without proof?

If i were god i would get laid all the time by the hottest women on earth.

Thats the greatest idea EVER!