Is it wrong to say I don't care at all?

No,there are worse things happening in the world,its just that the liberal and conservitive media only hype this story up because ofratings.

Btw, in answer to the accusations of abuse, Jaw Wolfsen, who was the appointed by the Florida Court in 2003 to answer directly to Jeb Bush about the case after examining every aspect both legal and medical, spent 30 days with Terri Schiavo examining her. He had this to say:

I found nothing in the evidence, nothing— and some of the people who have been presenting evidence recently saying that there's been abuse. They shared that evidence with me a year and a half ago, as well. And I've seen it rather recently again.

There's no evidence to support that she was abused. For 15 years, she hasn't had a bed sore. Ken Connors, who was the governor's attorney was a plaintiff's attorney who made a lot of success in nursing home -- nursing home injuries. She's never had a bed sore in 15 years.

For many years, Michael kept such good care of her that the nursing home staff tried to get a restraining order against him at one point, because he was demanding so much. I think she's been cared for very much by Michael.

He also found that Michael's claim about her intentions was credible and that Terri was indeed in a vegetative state. And this was no shill for Michael Schiavo. He was not hired by Michael's attorneys. He was appointed by the state and advocated by Jeb Bush himself. In fact, his testimony was not admitted because his appointment was later deamed unconstitutional.

I've got tremendous respect for Governor Bush. He's a wise and conscientious man. In his heart, I know what he feels. I really do.

And the Schindlers are wonderful people. It's not about Governor Bush, and it's not about the Schindlers, and it's not about the decent people outside of the hospice, and it's not about the Florida legislature. It's not about the Florida courts. It's not about the United States Congress. It's not about the U.S. courts. This is about Terri. It's about what her intentions might have been.

And if you don't believe what Michael and others have said about what she expressed after two funerals of her family members, which would have been in context, who were on respirators and who died. And she said, "I don't want to be like that." If you don't believe that, then nothing is going to change your mind.

But if the evidence is credible, and it was deemed so through the legal process, as much as any of us would say, God -- I'm not saying -- people say, do you want Terri to die? Goodness, no. Any more than I want my mother to die or my children to die.

Yes, that is why they tried to pass a "Defense of Marriage Act"? That is why all of the states that presented it have successfully added such laws to their constitutions?

(more to come)

You really like that phrase don't you?

Did you miss the point?

The republicans claim to want government off our backs and claim to want state's rights. Then they push the "defense of marriage act" which does the exact opposite of those two claims.

Yes, I guess I did miss the point. My apologies.

Well, spoken, sirrah, apology accepted!

I guess I might as well say it. By nature I am more conservative, and generally lean toward the Republican voting, however I no longer support President Bush, and think that he is more harm then good to this country. I know this thread isn't about him, but as I've expressed other views, I might as well say this. At this point, I think Bush would have been a better president to impeach then Clinton. Yeah, I said it.

Well, obviously, I agree. :wink:

The thing is that Bush is not really a conservative; he is some sort of radical selfish something-or-other I don't have a word for. His policies, every single one, can usually come down to two issues: (1) what will make the most money for my rich friends and (2) what will energize my religious conservative base so that I can stay in power and continue to make the most money for my rich friends?

Seriously, take any Bush issue and you can boil it down to that. Social security? Change it so rich bankers get the money instead. War with Iraq? Contracts for my rich friends in Halliburton and more oil for my pal's companies. Good economy? Give tax breaks to my rich pals. Bad economy? Need to stimulate it by giving tax breaks to my rich pals. Save the environment? Not when it means my rich pals in the mining, oil, and timber industries can't make money. Safe and cheap medicine? Those kinds of controls only hurt my rich pals in the pharmecutical industry. Minimum wage? No way, because that will hurt big businesses that want to pay poverty wages to their employees. And so on.

Go ahead, take any issue Bush works on and you can always predict what his position is, because it always, always, always will favor the richest segment of our society or appeal to that fanatical religious base that keeps him in power.

It's sad that some of the poorest people in America are also the most fanatical religious, and they see Bush as the savior of morality while he is absolutely screwing them over behind their backs. What a con job.

Can you tell I don't like the guy?

How can you say he's not really a conservative and then define modern conservatism so effectively?

I think he IS a conservative. And what you describe is the state of what conservatism has become.

I say if the shoe fits.

Btw, did you happen to notice that Republican leader Tom Delay, who called Michael Schiavo an unfit husband for wanting to pull the plug on Terri, actually pulled the plug on his own father after a car accident that left his father brain dead?

Did you also happen to notice that Bush, who said that we should "ALWAYS err on the side of life" signed a law in Texas that gave the hospital the right to terminate a patient's life DESPITE the wishes of the immediate family including the parents?

OK, I agree -- I was using conservative as the way conservatives used to be. I was trying to say that he has gone so far to the right that he has passed conservativism into something new, almost fascism. I agree that modern conservatives are farther right than they once were and the way conservatives once were are no longer. Moderate republicans are few and far between these days.

Well I'm one of the few then Mike. :wink: Granted I'm just now starting to become more involved in politics (only reached voting age a year ago) but I am far more moderate then anyone in my family. They hail Bush as the savior as you said, but I just cannot stand behind the man. I am religious, and that is part of my reason. I feel that Bush uses his faux morality and his faux faith to simply get his way.

I agree. And there's nothing that says you can't be religious and be a Democrat or a liberal. I consider myself a Christian and I'm both. I do not believe in forcing my beliefs on anyone else and I certainly don't believe in passing laws that do that.

I'd love to elaborate, but its been a long day. I look forward to continuing this conversation tomorrow?

I was just browsing the forums over at RT...and came across this....which is another reason I dont post there


This is just wrong....



http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/show ... p?t=403858

That's not even funny. It's really tragic that some evil people can laugh at this. It's really sad, and they are making a joke out of it. They all need to seek a therapist.

That thread is just horrible.