You're right, it isn't about America, it's about Lance Armstrong who just happens to be from america.

Armstrong, unlike Bonds, has actually gone after everyone who has accused him of doping. And won, too.

That's the last I say, cause arguing with you about Lance Armstrong is like arguing with a Pro-Lifer about why Abortion should be legal.

Give me just one reason why Lance Armstrong should be clean when all runner-ups or Tour winners since at least 1997 were doped. That doesn't make sense. If a woman should break Florence Griffith-Joyner's world records which were clearly achieved in the high phase of doping and manages to beat all the doping tests doesn't common sense tell you that woman is doped?

It's understandable that people hate me for it. We all try to live by the standard Innocent until proven otherwise. The sad thing about today's sports which many people just refuse to accept is that you can't apply that rule to sports anymore. There is talk today that Ullrich and all the others involved in the spanish doping scandal will get free because there is no total proof for it. There are people who cheat doping tests with catheters, there are no methods to tell that someone used spiked blood of his own, there are methods to use testosterone without getting caught, there are methods to lower the red blood cell counts to fly under the allowed level.
I could instantly tell you up to 50 people who allegedly are clean sportsman, but who in all probability cheated. If we, the fans and the media, continue to judge sports by the rule Innocent until proven otherwise, 80% of sports will be destroyed and we can all turn to pool billiard, poker and darts as last resorts for fair "sports".

I agree with you, at this point everytime I turn around there is another doping scandal. Athletes like Ladis sya they want to be believed, but with the prevelance of doping its hard ot take the inoocent till proven guilty stance. The bodies governing sports have for to long taken a blind eye to doping and now they have no idea how to fix the problem.

I am shocked we peopel are still debating whether Bonds took drugs, I mean c'mon is ther anyone out there who really thinks he is clean. Alot of it just makes me lose interest in watching sports anymore. I think the fans and the leagues/governing bodies need to start getting tough, with heavy fines, lifetime bans...a $10,000K fine is not goign to do much.

Because, unlike most everyone else, Armstrong didn't just prefusely deny it, he went after them and actually won suits and countersuits.

You don't see Bonds suing over "A Game of Shadows."

Point in case that they do nothing to fight doping: The UCI refuses to handle out blood samples of Jan Ulrich for a DNA check with the blood found in the spanish drug scandal. They make it really easy for the cheaters.

*cough* most of the cases had nothing to do with whether he doped or not. He sued them for technicalities. There's still the positive test out there as reported by L'Equipe which wasn't denied as of yet. Armstrong got lucky that the UCI and WADA are in a bitch fight. The UCI (who tries everything to make people believe cycling is clean) cleaned Armstrong, WADA still says the doping allegations are legit. And to be honest regarding the way the UCI handles its doping cases, I take WADA as the more believable source.
Furthermore Armstrong was caught doping with corticoids (?)during the Tour De France 1999 and he swindled himself out of it with a reputed prescription which he magically pulled out of his hat afterwards, which in all probability was dated back by a friendly doc.

I guess I just have a soft spot for believing people. The fact that everyone over there seems to really hate his guts makes me suspicious of their allegations as well.

Im not saying I would be shocked to my very core if it came out definitively that he had some "help," just that, what makes everyone else so believable?

See that's the sad truth: everyone else isn't believable either.
Do I find it suspicious that our female swimmers come out of nowhere and demolish every record? Yes. Do I believe that at least 80% of the cyclists are drugged? Yes. Do I believe that at least 50% of the current track & field records have been made with medical help? Yes, yes and yes. And don't get me started with the NFL or MLB power hitters...

Sports is big business and big business is dirty to the core. And if no one cares it won't change

Well, I've been saying this for years, when Ben Johnson ran a 9.79 and he was guilty of using steroids, but Carl Lewis runs a 9.83 and he is clean. Now you have guys running a 9.76, and they are clean as well? Bullshit. I'm with Levy on this one.

How can you even enjoy sports, now? :wink:

The problem with the MLB is that MLB itself has facilitated the home run hitting parade. The balls are juiced, the ballparks are smaller, and that makes steroid use a lot harder to be obvious. There isn't a clear cut "Wow, that guy hit 80 home runs, he must be juiced" suspicion because it's so much easier to hit the ball out in general. There actually used to be several players who went all year without a home run. Now everyone has a home run, and I think it would be a little too cynical to say that every single player is on the juice because of that.

HAH!

You all should've started following hockey!!!

No cheaters here!!!

LOSERS!!!

Armstrong supports Landis according to ESPN


Says "If I can get away with it, you can too"

Why does doping matter anyway? If ALL are doping that equals out the doping effect anyway

I agree with you, though I will say that the NFL is better then the MLB on checking for doping, not that its hard to be better the MLB. A five year old could be more effective on stoppping doping then MLB.

The fallout continues. Phonak is disbanding at the end of the year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/n ... id=2549947

Given the track record of positives from this team, probably not a bad thing....

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