http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/797601.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_hooliganism ( In this one it goes on to say that soccer hooliganism got so bd that Thatcher had to invoke a law against it..very disparaging stuff.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_repo ... /60146.stm This one says that 39 fans were killed in a European Cup final. Awesome. Very tame sport.

http://www.emergency.com/socrviol.htm 94 fans killed in 1989 and 170 more injured....keeps getting better.

http://www.noviolence.com/BreakingNews/Europe/ recent violence...

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/interna ... 90,00.html Recent

I'm just getting started btw...more when i get my next break

What does this prove again?

They asked for proof. The joker said that violence in soccer was a myth. Here is proof that the Mothman exissts.

The baumer is an question dodging ass.

You asked for proof dickhead, here it is, and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Brilliant. this shows how much of an insulting clueless individual he is. He doesn't even know that was the "Heysel disaster" and completely ignores the reforms. Plus that article is more about the decline of hooliganism in Britain.

And once again I'll say ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.

That better not be directed at me. because i said, and i'll use big letters SHOW PROOF OF IRISH FANS (not northern ireland their british) RIOTING. This artful question dodging is getting silly.

What a moronic article. Any page which say's that the 1985 Bradford tragedy was caused by hooligans when a police Investigation showed the true cause was a build-up of rubish in the stands is completely discreditied.

And the 1989 incident was due to overcrowding in the stands and poor safety procedures which was again verifiedby independent inquiries and lead to the "Taylor report". But then I'm sure a well informed fella like yourself knew that . Plus you once again how clueless you are by failing to simply call it the Hillsbourgh disaster.

Wow I never knew 2002 was recent. for a breaking news site there seems to be very little news to report

a) If you guys wish to discuss something, be civil.

b) While I disagree that football violence is a myth, i'm a bit with kyro on this one. a lot of those links you've posted are related to football and violence but not directly because of football itself. in that one place, the stand was overcrowded and it broke .. i remember watching it on tv myself.

c) i think its a stupid argument because i see enough violence in many other sports as well. take this year's NHL for example where hockey hooligans in calgary went around breaking chairs, and lighing cars on fire just because they got into the finals ...sports and violence will always be linked together as sports is competitive and competition always leads to some sort of confrontations.

Your right Baba this is silly. I fact i'm going to just stop now as I feel like i'm banging my head against a wall and it ain't enjoyable to debate like this.

You're missing the point here Arsi, Kyro disputes that there is any violence directly correlated with football and its fans. I'm simply providing proof that he is a moron. There are literally 100's of documented cases proving that soccer hooliganism is a problem and has been since the 50's. I am not here to dispute violent eruptions in other sporting events. But people don't die because of them, unless you go to a Raiders or Eagles game, that's about as close to soccer fantaticism as possible. These links are conclusive proof that soccer fans, a portion of them anyway are violent by nature. This doesn't take away from the skill level of the game, it doesn't mean that kyro walks around in his Zidane underoos, it just means that soccer fans are incredibly violent and cause damage and even death at times.

That's good kyro, glad you are coming around. There is no debate because you need two sides of the story to create a debate. I'm right and there is no debating that.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/interna ... 47,00.html

http://www.crisscross.com/us/news/29220

http://www.fox6.com/news/world/story.as ... F4E1A4D074

http://www.sirc.org/publik/fvhist.html

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_ ... aF8Gq4-iiw

If you want a nice video of all the warm and friendly soccer fans, then sign up and watch them beat the snot out of each other. But no, soccer doesn't have violent fans.

Breaks over, I'll be back later to shut kyro up even more.

Sigh. I never said that. tell me when I said that? seriously man I couldn't be arsed arguing with you anymore it's like trying to pick up Mercury with a fork a pointless exercise. If you ever plan to debate the questions I really asked you give me a PM and I'll be glad to do so.

And again thank you for insulting me and my family by saying all football fan's are violent loons I'm honoured.

You're a coward. I'm giving you examples like you asked me for, don't back out now. Prove me wrong oh wise European Muse.

I repeat



When did I say that? you can't debate something a person didn't say. You said ALL fans were thug's. Thats the arguement.

And i asked for IRISH examples. (real reputable ones that show all fans are scumbags)

EDIT: I've already discredited 3 of your links which I find amazing because finding solid info on Hooligan incidents isn't that hard. (yes hooliganism is real which was never the point I was arguing) I have never debated with someone who can dodge questions, ignore instances where they are proven wrong and make up things people didn't say like you Baumer it's just depressing to read and deal with. I hope you grow up a bit more and refrine from insulting people with what is clearly a lot of hate in your heart.

Hopeful we can chat with more maturity later, cause I'm out.

Ok, if you want to call a truce on this one, cool. I didn't say that Irish people are the root of all evil. English soccer fans are more notorious for their hooligan behaviour. And you and Doc are right Kyro, I don't know much about football. But I do read and watch the news and there are so many stories about soccer violence. So sorry for being argumentative, but I am just reciting what i have heard for years.

Yes a truce would be nice since my head hurts and both of us should cool off.

Until our next duel.

Peace out

Cool.. BTW..my wife is Portuguese.

see dan, the problem i have with your argument reflects what kyro said in the other thread. make a thread on how football and violence is directly correlated and he'll make one about how women and violence is associated, how cell phones and voilence is associated and what not.

you're creating a thread that isn't telling us anything out of the ordinary. you can take out 15 links that associate football to violence. well guess what. welcome to competitive sports. since i've moved to north america, i've seen enough street fights over hockey to basketball .. hell .. almost everything bar GOLF!!

But none that had death associated with them arsi.

Is violence only bad when it causes death, many of those incidents are lucky they don't lead to death. Riots after sports teams winning in North America is not uncommon. You have players choking coaches (basketball), fans stabbing their favorites's opponent (tennis). No one can dispute that soccer has incidents of violence in its history, including death, but the fans in other sports are quickly catching up.

What's sad is these violent fans ruin it for everyone else.

i'm pretty sure the guy whos chevrolet i saw on the news report in calgary didn't walk out, turn his head to the heavens with his hands raised and screamed "Thank you lord for destroying my car but not taking my life"