Yes the screenwriting failed this movie. Nothing we can do now but hope they do better in JL 1&2

A little less of Doomsday fight and a little more of BvS setup just before the fight would have been great. Doomsday is really just the destruction porn in the end which the entire movie didn't setup, its there to show action in the end and to a lesser extent Wonder Woman.

How would it be weird to yell out "Save my mom", or "Save her"? How does saying "Save Martha!" supposed to resonate with Batman outside of the script saying Batman has to? He gives up an 18 month assassination plan because at the drop of a hat it dawns on him they both have mothers because they both share the first name. Again, at little detective work on his part might have gone a long way...

But it's not worth going in circles. You like lazy storytelling and bright objects (that are dimmed or muted here), and I'd like a little more out of a film. Something not lazy.

And remember, if your argument in favor of a movie ends with a petty "You should be a writer", the story and the script must be great.

Man, you're a fucking piece of shit. This is like when nghtvsn revealed he loved Trump.

I watched that one but its more towards Superman and not really JL setup. This movie can however be used for the next MoS sequel.

Wow! That didn't take much at all!

Looks like the countdown will begin a little sooner than later...

Phantom Menace...

C'mon, Chip. "Save Martha!" is a cheat. He says Martha instead of Mom purely because Batman has to hear the name. There's no actual character reason for him to say it.

Jmart you have to agree the first half of the movie is still good. Entire movie is flawed but the first half is MUCH better.

Not only that after the second line is even more vague with "Find Him. Save Martha".

So the guy who actually knows the identity of the other guy wouldn't use a name he might recognize to convince him?

Supes could have said "Help save my mother" easily in this context. To be honest he could have said those 4 words at the start of the fight as well. There needed to be another misunderstanding before the start of the fight.

Better than the second half, yes.

Good? Ehhhh.

I'd like to know what is so bad in the first half?

Hahahahahaha.

Chip, it's okay to think some things in a movie you're fanboying over are cheats, or don't work. Zack Snyder won't be angry at you.

Every movie has "cheats". It's asinine to think otherwise. They are stories. I'm surprised people aren't complaining about their mother's having the same name in general and blaming it on "shoddy" writing.

And I've picked apart this film in many posts. But I have a large enough mind where I can still judge a film based on my enjoyment.

Jack

The entire tone of the film is grim. That gets established in the first half.

The Africa part feels chopped to bits (and apparently it was). Jimmy Olsen getting shot in the face. Also, the trailer made it seem like Superman was called before the Senate because of what happened in Man of Steel and not because of this stuff in Africa, and that's what should've happened. Instead they needed to give Lois something to do and it's not necessary.

The Knightmare scene. Sort of worked for me, but only because I knew about it going in. I don't know how a general audience member could understand what was going on.

Luthor and his motivations.

They do. But they usually aren't as flagrant as this one.

What's especially silly is that it's an easy fix. Just have Superman say that Batman has to save his mom, and then Lois runs up and asks what's wrong with Martha.

OK so what's the difference between the two? If Superman yells out to save his mother rather than him yelling out to save Martha? The end result and scenes are exactly the same, one word is different. That's the difference between a good scene and an awful one? That's silly.

In one of them Superman thinks he's about to die and makes it about more than him, that his mom's life is more important.

In the other he's manipulating Batman based on knowing about the horrifying double murder Bruce witnessed as a child.

Not a small difference.

Oh jesus christ. Now you're throwing out that he's trying to manipulate him? Rather than him trying to find a common thread between the two?

You're the one who said he says Martha because he knows who Bruce is and his backstory. That's manipulation.

Ok, but you're implying malice with manipulation. Him saying "save my mother" would also be manipulation.

No, it wouldn't. "Save my mother" would be the thing he's actually thinking in the moment right before he believes he's going to die.

But why would he say that, other than to convince Bruce to save her? If he really thought he was about to die, it would've been about Lois. But he believes that he can still convince Bruce to change his mind.