good. she sucks anyways.

It looks bad but doesn't really mean anything other than a few days of news.

Another reason to find her repulsive excellent.

It looks bad because it IS bad. Sure, Pelosi didn't order the torture, but if she was aware of it and didn't say anything, it completely undermines her credibility on criticizing the Bush administration.

Pelosi is a complete moron. How the Democrats put her in a leadership position is beyond me.

More to the point, Beeble is 100% right, it looks bad because she's been criticizing the Bush administration purely as a political maneuver when she has knowingly done nothing. Even worse, about 30 other Democrats on the committee are guilty of the same thing, Pelosi just takes the fall because she's in a leadership position.

I find it all ironic because many here and elsewhere have been accusing the Republican party of simply politically pandering with many of their recent actions, something that sadly isn't incorrect. The irony is that Democrats have been so gung-ho against torture because it rated so well on the political spectrum, and now that the tides have turned and they face the risk of looking like hypocrites, they will slowly back away from the issue. Back away not because they are wrong, but because they don't care, keeping their seats is more important than a torture agenda. The same could be said for both parties on just about any issue, and it's pretty sad.

Or, you know, because it's WRONG.



While Pelosi may have done nothing and should definitely step down as leader, the fact is that Republicans have AUTHORIZED and ADVOCATED torture. Democrats are no angels, but as is almost always the case, the Republicans are far, far worse.

I mean look, it took Pelosi's involvement for YOU to comment on a torture thread.

The point is, the Democrats in office could care less about torture, they pander to it because it plays well with the public. Now that it doesn't, it will fade like a distant memory.

isn't knowing it and doing nothing about it basically the same as advocating it.

It's not as nefarious. Anybody aware of something could be blamed for inaction.

I know you've been sitting back waiting for a Dem to be implicated so that you could pull out your fake "see, they all do it" crap and dismiss it. You and Jim both don't bother to weigh in on the issue until a Dem gets involved. Now you feel the need to comment. Who's the hypocrite?

I guess according to Republicans, ignoring it is going to turn out to be worse than authorizing it or carrying out the orders.

But torture is illegal. It's a war crime. And there are many Dems in Congress and the WH who do care. Just because Pelosi knew doesn't mean that no Dem really cares about torture. That's utter nonsense. In fact, it's on the lefty blogs that you'll find the stories about Pelosi and the other top Dems who might have been briefed. The calls for investigation and prosecution have not diminished.

If you see someone getting mugged and don't do anything, does that mean you're an advocate for mugging? No.

Some of the top Dems have a lot to answer for if they were aware of torture policies and ignored it. But that's a far cry from the Republicans who ordered the torture policies to begin with and those who have defended and advocated for torture policies.

I wouldn't be surprised though to see in the coming weeks Republicans arguing that knowing/doing nothing is way WORSE that authorizing torture and is, in fact, the only thing that should be investigated and prosecuted.

The proper analogy would be if you were a police officer and saw someone getting mugged. That doesn't mean that you're an advocate for mugging, but it does mean that you were not doing your job and were also complicit. Regardless of the officer's intent, that outcome is the same.

That's greatly overstating Pelosi's involvement though. She was not a police officer who could have single-handedly stopped torture from occurring. She was negligent and didn't do her job. She should lose her position in the leadership and hopefully lose her seat in Congress.

But the idea that this is the same as those who authorized or carried out torture is ridiculous. Authorizing torture is a crime. This isn't. I should say that neither, btw, is defending the torture policy that was implemented as most Republicans have done. That's just stupid, immoral, and douche-baggy and those people should all be run out of office as well.

You're kidding yourself. The whole issue of torture is going to quietly fade into the night.

I certainly hope not. Not if decent people who truly stand for freedom have anything to say about it.

You let it fade; I'll continue to shine a light on it the best I can.

Ah yes, mockery of humans rights and mockery of opposition to war crimes. This is what the GOP is reduced to, a pathetic pro-torture, anti-gay, anti-science cabal.

Meanwhile:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... ators.html

The 25 lines edited out of the court papers contained details of how Mr Mohamed's genitals were sliced with a scalpel and other torture methods so extreme that waterboarding, the controversial technique of simulated drowning, "is very far down the list of things they did," the official said.

These are your harmless frat-boy pranks.

I wasn't mocking human rights, I was mocking Groucho's self-serving Tom Joad-like speech.

Please stop associating me with being anti-gay and anti-science and the GOP is now a cabal? Seriously? Does your hatred of all things Republican know no bounds?

It doesn't. You should know by now that no matter what your stated beliefs, if you associate yourself in any way with the Republican party, you instantly become a sterotype to Beeble, and a sterotype you shall forever remain. A sterotype advocating hate, torture, racism, gaymongering and countless other atrocities, a sterotype fitting only of the Republican party, and a fate you deserve for ever speaking in a non-negative light about those-who-shall-not-be-named.

Welcome to the club, tea's at 4.

believe me i'm against torture but some of the things read aren't torture. Sitting in an awkward position? That's not torture, i did that while going through pledgeship. Same with not being allowed to sleep for a while and a few other things.

Waterboarding is a whole different thing. That is torture and should never be used.

I love his booming voice.

Ah.

So Ventura lays it all out on the table yet the world will cycle in it's repetitiveness as usual. That's a shame. I wish he had run for Senate this past election. It would have been another perfect opportunity. Alas, we're stuck with his comments relegated to a few opinion tv shows.