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 The states that are allowing gay marriage thread 
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
Eagle wrote:
Well, you more than anyone should know the above process is a decade long one, it's just now it can finally begin.


Excellent point. Those particular guys probably won't be gone in a decade, but the make up of the court could shift by then.

What I'm hoping for really is that DOMA simply gets overturned by the Congress. Nice and neat. Once it's gone, it is unlikely to ever come back.


Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:43 am
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
Caius wrote:
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I don't want it to go to the Supreme Court right now, not with that homophobe Scalia and his fanatical buddies Alito and Thomas there.

Does that really matter? Kennedy voted with Stevens, Breyer, Souter, and Ginsburg in Lawrence and Romer which, contrary to Kennedy's claims in those cases (which he authored), lend support to the idea of a right to marriage for gays.


True enough; I just worry that one of those above would say "marriage goes too far" and join the others. We're only talking one swing vote here to change things.

But even so, I'm not sure that an appeal can even happen. The Supreme Court doesn't rule on state constitutions unless they violate the federal constitution. A state can always give more rights than the feds do, so there's really nothing to appeal here, is there?

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Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:34 am
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
As I mentioned, the appeal to the Supreme Court will come when one state refuses to acknowledge the marriage of a gay couple legally married in another state because it violates their constitution or an ammendment to their constitution.

At that point it can become a federal matter.

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Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:05 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
Eagle wrote:
As I mentioned, the appeal to the Supreme Court will come when one state refuses to acknowledge the marriage of a gay couple legally married in another state because it violates their constitution or an ammendment to their constitution.

At that point it can become a federal matter.


Unfortunately, there is already precedent going the other way. Some states refuse to accept marriages done in quickie Las Vegas ceremonies, and the courts have stated that despite the "Full Faith and Credit" provision in the Constitution, that is fine. So I assume they will just treat this the same. (I disagree with that of course)

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Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:20 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
Interesting article in DC Examiner. Has the Right surrendered in the culture war?

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Similarly, the fact that gay marriage is now a foregone conclusion is met with mostly a shrug. With Vermont’s move to pass a law allowing the practice, every state will eventually have to acknowledge the legality of gay vows administered elsewhere. Keeping local restrictions will seem pointless and out of date when the laws actually do nothing to prevent the practice. In much the same way, changes to the way the government treats abortion and embryos provoked some quibbling but mostly silence.

Exhausted by decades of the culture war and afraid of further economic setbacks, the silent majority hasn’t been roused by the issue. Perhaps it isn’t even a majority anymore.

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Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:16 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
If a state was to read Lawrence or Romer as compelling (meaning no adequate or independent state grounds) a holding in favor of, or against, gay marriage, then the U.S. Supreme Court might take the case up using Michigan v. Long. However, any smart state court could easily avoid that unless they simply wanted to increase the odds of the U.S. Supreme Court granting cert.


Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:32 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
Krem wrote:
Interesting article in DC Examiner. Has the Right surrendered in the culture war?


I think one part of the recent success for gay marriage has been redefining it from a culture war issue to a civil rights issue. And of course the increasing acceptance among young people toward gays.


Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:53 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
Beeblebrox wrote:
Krem wrote:
Interesting article in DC Examiner. Has the Right surrendered in the culture war?


I think one part of the recent success for gay marriage has been redefining it from a culture war issue to a civil rights issue. And of course the increasing acceptance among young people toward gays.


And gay integration into society over the last few years. 5 years ago I remember the "real world" show being "controversial" cause of the two gays on there, and now it's almost standard to include them and even mock them in a lot of movies and tv shows and stuff. There's a lot of progress over the last decade, still some to go, but lots of progress.

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Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:52 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
hilarious


Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:06 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
John Savage wrote:
Beeblebrox wrote:
Krem wrote:
Interesting article in DC Examiner. Has the Right surrendered in the culture war?


I think one part of the recent success for gay marriage has been redefining it from a culture war issue to a civil rights issue. And of course the increasing acceptance among young people toward gays.


And gay integration into society over the last few years. 5 years ago I remember the "real world" show being "controversial" cause of the two gays on there, and now it's almost standard to include them and even mock them in a lot of movies and tv shows and stuff. There's a lot of progress over the last decade, still some to go, but lots of progress.

More like 16 years ago...

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Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:22 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
Yeah, I was gonna say. Gays have been prominent in TV since the 90s now.

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Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:16 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
AnJon Lyrik Chigurh wrote:
Yeah, I was gonna say. Gays have been prominent in TV since the 90s now.


Prominent numbers means nothing of the quality of the representation is still negative. There were so few instances of progressive gay characters in the 90's you could probably count them on your hand.

I'm doing my current thesis on the qualitative state of such representation today (Fall 2008). Interesting to see what I find as I'm about to start my analysis/discussion.

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Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:45 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
Yes, but that's not what he meant, it seems.

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Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:03 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
Looks like New Hampshire and Maine are about to join the club. New England is falling like a proverbial house of dominoes.


Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:53 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
Beeblebrox wrote:
Looks like New Hampshire and Maine are about to join the club. New England is falling like a proverbial house of dominoes.

Is that the proverb? I thought it was like a "house of cards" or perhaps "the domino effect" (hehe).


Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:51 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
Caius wrote:
Beeblebrox wrote:
Looks like New Hampshire and Maine are about to join the club. New England is falling like a proverbial house of dominoes.

Is that the proverb? I thought it was like a "house of cards" or perhaps "the domino effect" (hehe).


Yes I was intentionally mixing my similes for humorous effect. ;)


Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:10 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
What will be the second state in Real America to fall victim to the gay plague?

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Fri May 01, 2009 6:56 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!

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Sun May 03, 2009 1:58 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
AnJon Lyrik Chigurh wrote:
What will be the second state in Real America to fall victim to the gay plague?


Montana maybe.

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Sun May 03, 2009 2:19 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
Wisconsin has a pretty sizable gay population. So does Minnesota. Colorado?

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Sun May 03, 2009 2:30 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
Jon Tyler Lyrik wrote:
Wisconsin has a pretty sizable gay population. So does Minnesota. Colorado?



Not sure if the size of the gay population means much. Not a lot of gays in Maine and Iowa, for instance. I think it has to do more with liberalism and, more specifically, libertarian views of government -- and those views are strong in Montana, which is why I suggested them. Just a guess though; I have no research to support this.

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Sun May 03, 2009 6:29 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
Montana has lots of survivalist types and LDS, though.

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Sun May 03, 2009 10:22 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
New Mexico


Sun May 03, 2009 10:43 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
Maine Governor signs same-sex marriage bill!


Wed May 06, 2009 1:06 pm
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Post Re: Iowa moves into the 21st century: gay marriage!
omg he signed it!!!



he was opposed to gay marriage before. crazy.

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