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 Financial Stability Plan 
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
And so it begins:

Quote:
Citi in talks over bigger U.S. stake - report
Bank and regulators said to discuss plan for government to convert preferred shares to common stock.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Citigroup Inc. is in discussions with regulators about a plan for the federal government to take a larger ownership stake in the bank, according to published reports.

The Wall Street Journal, citing sources familiar with the matter, reported that the government would convert a large portion of its preferred Citigroup shares to common shares.

The government received the preferred shares in return for investing $45 billion in Citi as part of the $700 billion bailout of the financial system.

According to the Journal, the talks involve Citi executives and regulators at the Federal Reserve and Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. Officials in the Obama administration have not said whether they support the plan, the Journal reported.

Citigroup spokesman Michael Hanretta declined to comment on the Journal report. On Friday, the bank issued a statement saying that its capital base is "very strong" and capital reserves were among the highest in the industry at the end of the fourth quarter.

"We continue to focus and make progress on reducing the assets on our balance sheet, reducing expenses and streamlining our business for future profitable growth," Hanretta said.

The Treasury Department, which has spearheaded recovery efforts for the financial system, declined to comment on the report, noting it has a policy of not discussing conversations with specific banks.

Yet the department noted that it was open to allowing financial institutions to covert government's existing preferred shares into new convertible preferred stock - a move that would ultimately allow Citigroup to strengthen its capital levels.

In many ways, that is exactly what government officials are reportedly considering, according to the Journal.

"We've made clear that we will do what is necessary to strengthen and stabilize the financial system so that it can provide the credit necessary to support economic recovery," Treasury spokesman Isaac Baker said in a statement to CNN.

The report is sure to stoke speculation about whether the Obama administration may have to nationalize large banks to stabilize the financial system.

The question of nationalization has weighed on the minds of investors in the two weeks since Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner announced a comprehensive stability plan that fell flat.


I would fully support this, as I've said before, I think the easiest and cheapest way to fix this problem is with an influx of equity via the government buying stock in troubled banks which we then sell back as the financial system stabalizes. Hopefully, if this does happen, better regulation accompanies it.

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Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:44 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
OY VEY.

So we're now set back to 1997...and that's not adjusted for inflation.


Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:48 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
Yeah, market is getting hammered. Great time to start saving for retirement.

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Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:58 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
Eagle wrote:
Yeah, market is getting hammered. Great time to start saving for retirement.

I recently put money in there last year when it was at 8000, so hopefully when it does go back up I will make a shit load of money.


Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:32 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
Do you guys think we'll see a big drop in the numbers when (and I guess it could still be if) the first bank faces nationalization?


Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:32 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
You know it might give some confidence in the markets for a change.


Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:35 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
That's tough. If they had come out with a detailed nationalization plan from the jump, the market wouldn't have balked nearly as bad as they will now. Because there going to have to do a 180 and go against what they initially said by nationalizing, it will cause a market backlash. The extent of that backlash will be determined by the scope, transparancy and intelligence of the plan coupled with the amount of regulation attached.

Short answer, yes, the market won't like government intervention and it will drop. The thing is, we're pushing 7000 already, there simply isn't much lower it can go. I don't see how it could get under 6000, but then again, at this point, nothing would surprise me.


@Jedi - I hope you're not planning on taking that money out in the next Decade, if that's the case, you made a great investment and should see a very good return, depending on how you invested it. There is no short term gain to be had in this market, even when it turns around it won't do so quickly.

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Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:39 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
Timayd wrote:
Do you guys think we'll see a big drop in the numbers when (and I guess it could still be if) the first bank faces nationalization?


yes


Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:04 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
Timayd wrote:
Do you guys think we'll see a big drop in the numbers when (and I guess it could still be if) the first bank faces nationalization?


stock market? yea.

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Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:41 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
Obama should replace Geithner. Between his tax issues which hasn't gone away in many people's minds and his inability to be front and center as an economic spokesman, and his limp sketch of an outline of a plan to have a plan, he isn't doing Obama a lot of good.


Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:35 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
Not only that, apparently he's been at odds with the administration regarding regulation.

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Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:55 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
Aye..you guys have the wrong mindset. Everything is so low...NOW...or, in a few months... is the to invest. When the market inevitably rises, the people who held on will make a great deal of money.

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Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:59 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
Excel wrote:
Aye..you guys have the wrong mindset. Everything is so low...NOW...or, in a few months... is the to invest. When the market inevitably rises, the people who held on will make a great deal of money.


yes i know that excel. You do the opposite of the market. You don't buy high and sell low. you buy low and sell high. The problem is that many people dont have the money to invest.

If you talk to a financial planner they projected this fall, maybe not as bad but they knew it would happen. They also know that the market will go back up.

The media is making it out like this market is the worst thing in our history when it's just the natural cycle of the market. It might be a bit lower but it is going to bounce back up.


Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:36 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
Eagle wrote:
That's tough. If they had come out with a detailed nationalization plan from the jump, the market wouldn't have balked nearly as bad as they will now. Because there going to have to do a 180 and go against what they initially said by nationalizing, it will cause a market backlash. The extent of that backlash will be determined by the scope, transparancy and intelligence of the plan coupled with the amount of regulation attached.

Short answer, yes, the market won't like government intervention and it will drop. The thing is, we're pushing 7000 already, there simply isn't much lower it can go. I don't see how it could get under 6000, but then again, at this point, nothing would surprise me.


@Jedi - I hope you're not planning on taking that money out in the next Decade, if that's the case, you made a great investment and should see a very good return, depending on how you invested it. There is no short term gain to be had in this market, even when it turns around it won't do so quickly.


I have no plans of taking it out within the next 20 years unless something I need it for some emergency. I got a financial adviser to take care of it for me.


Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:32 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
Then you should be good Jedi, it was a good investment. Heck, put more in if you can.

@ Excel ... who's saying don't invest? As Nite Owl said, it's just about having the money to invest.

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Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:00 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
Government Nationalized Citigroup today, they converted about $25 billion to common stock and now control 36%. I imagine later today we will find out more regarding how much control, board seats, regulation, etc.

This is what I thought we should be doing (as opposed to the idiotic and expensive plan laid out) so I'm happy. Bank gets capital and a large financial investor, tax payers won't have to bleed money to stabilize the bank.

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Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:14 am
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
AIG's bailout was revamped today, they bought more preferred stock and additional stock which is similar to common stock. Total additional money of about $30 Billion, the total equity added to AIG is billions more. The total # committed to AIG is now at around $150 Billion!

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Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:16 am
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
Yeah it is worrisome, but they can't let AIG fail. It would be disastrous for the economy.


Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:18 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
and we're below 7000


Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:33 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
Jedi Master Carr wrote:
Yeah it is worrisome, but they can't let AIG fail. It would be disastrous for the economy.


Disastrous?

AIG is a privately (was a privately) owned corporation that now has gotten enough Billions of dollars to equal the amount given out to the public as a stimulus last summer. I got 600$ out of that and this rat hole of a company is supposed to be too big to fail because assholes are telling the public that?

Are we kidding ourselves here? Just because they say it is makes it the only truth here? Are we seriously believing any of their BULLSHIT anymore? I mean.. PLEASE.

This company needs to be dissolved, broken apart, allowed to go into bankruptcy. Whatever it takes to stop us (me) (We) the american public from handing out anymore cash to this money losing / black hole / run into the ground / crap company. Pretty Please.

Disastrous.

We're below 7k, the economy is tanking, unemployment is rising, definite recession and letting this one jack company fail would be Disastrous...

oh, Bernanke says we'll be on the rebound in 1 year too.

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Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:21 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
So here in the newspaper about AIG:

-100b USD loss this year.
-180b help from government so far
-At the highest point AIG had 450b USD of CDS
-Experts say another 50b-100b USD are needed this year to save the company from crashing.


so when things go bad.....the saving of AIG will cost about 300b.

they really messed up big!

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Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:55 am
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
nghtvsn and FILMO,

AIG is one of 4-6 financial institutions that simply ARE too big to fail, like it or not. The market dipped below 7k, but things would be much worse if we had taken the hands off approach of the 20's.

To date, the government has loaned AIG $150 billion dollars. A ton of money, but without it, AIG fails. The scope of that failure would trickle throughout the entire system, causing more failures like dominoes. The dollar, who's value is currently better than recent memory, would be worthless. The economy, which is barely hanging on, would plummet.

All that said, $150 billion is a huge number. You suggested the company breaking apart, that's actually what's happening. The government has bought an equity stake in this company, and is stabilizing it while it sells off assets. To date, over 10 pieces of AIG have sold interests. The money from those sales has gone back to uncle sam, to the tune of $50 billion. That's right, they've payed back a third of their loan by doing exactly what you wanted.

This is being done just so they maintain their credit rating and equity margins, thus allowing their business to function while they stabilize and sell it. AIG will never again be the AIG we knew, but they don't have to take down everyone else with them.

Buffet recently wrote an interesting piece criticizing companies for how intertwined they were, for the domino effect they created, for the reliance on each other. Like it or not, it exists, and you can bitch and moan about the market but letting AIG fail would have been unrecoverable for our financial system.

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Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:32 am
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
Eagle wrote:
nghtvsn and FILMO,

AIG is one of 4-6 financial institutions that simply ARE too big to fail, like it or not. The market dipped below 7k, but things would be much worse if we had taken the hands off approach of the 20's.

To date, the government has loaned AIG $150 billion dollars. A ton of money, but without it, AIG fails. The scope of that failure would trickle throughout the entire system, causing more failures like dominoes. The dollar, who's value is currently better than recent memory, would be worthless. The economy, which is barely hanging on, would plummet.

All that said, $150 billion is a huge number. You suggested the company breaking apart, that's actually what's happening. The government has bought an equity stake in this company, and is stabilizing it while it sells off assets. To date, over 10 pieces of AIG have sold interests. The money from those sales has gone back to uncle sam, to the tune of $50 billion. That's right, they've payed back a third of their loan by doing exactly what you wanted.

This is being done just so they maintain their credit rating and equity margins, thus allowing their business to function while they stabilize and sell it. AIG will never again be the AIG we knew, but they don't have to take down everyone else with them.

Buffet recently wrote an interesting piece criticizing companies for how intertwined they were, for the domino effect they created, for the reliance on each other. Like it or not, it exists, and you can bitch and moan about the market but letting AIG fail would have been unrecoverable for our financial system.


I completely agree with you and we just have had no chose but to do that. I think if we had let it failed the dow would be below 5000 right now and we would be in the middle of a major depression.


Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:43 am
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
I know that AIG is too big to fail.....It would be Leeman Brothers x 10.......

What I find truly shocking is not the rescue.....its the fact that AIG played like in a Casino with those CDS.

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Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:07 pm
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Post Re: Financial Stability Plan
nghtvsn wrote:
Jedi Master Carr wrote:
Yeah it is worrisome, but they can't let AIG fail. It would be disastrous for the economy.


Disastrous?

AIG is a privately (was a privately) owned corporation that now has gotten enough Billions of dollars to equal the amount given out to the public as a stimulus last summer. I got 600$ out of that and this rat hole of a company is supposed to be too big to fail because assholes are telling the public that?

Are we kidding ourselves here? Just because they say it is makes it the only truth here? Are we seriously believing any of their BULLSHIT anymore? I mean.. PLEASE.

This company needs to be dissolved, broken apart, allowed to go into bankruptcy. Whatever it takes to stop us (me) (We) the american public from handing out anymore cash to this money losing / black hole / run into the ground / crap company. Pretty Please.

Disastrous.

We're below 7k, the economy is tanking, unemployment is rising, definite recession and letting this one jack company fail would be Disastrous...

oh, Bernanke says we'll be on the rebound in 1 year too.


so just like the 300/600 one last year, guess the curent XXX Billion Dollar stimulus package is going to be forgotten soon. So maybe we can have a XXXX one next year to go along with Obama's XXXXXXXXX Trillion Dollar Budget.

so when is the next stimulus package coming cause I think we need another soon. Just like the last 2, let future generations pay for it.

Pretty Depressing but is there really any answers?????? And what is Obama saying?????


Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:42 pm
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