Thanks for your insights on the show, bABA.

Tony, I apologize if I was an ass.

Libs, I'm sorry for my conduct in your forum.

There's absolutely no need to apologize to me! I promise you that I can't be offended, and I love a spirited debate. According to the peeps at the video game forum, I may like it too much. But, they're all just a bunch of wusses. You make a few disturbing videos about a member and they cry like a baby (see signature).

I do like Simon Cowell a lot, and 99% of the time I agree with him. I also like his cocky "tell it like it is" style. I see a lot of me in him. I know you probably find that hard to believe.

Anyhow, don't be shy with me, I actually like that you told me what you thought without holding back. Please continue to do that with me. No need to sugar coat anything.

You so did NOT pwn anything or anyone! This is going in episode 5 somewhere, somehow.

We're not on different pages! The debate is quite simply whether a trained performer would be a better judge than Simon Cowell. I've seen every trained performer try their hand at this that AI has offered, and all of them have been much worse. Much much worse. I'm willing to bet that 99% of the regular Idol watchers would agree with me. What do you think baba? Do you think any of the trained talent was better than Cowell? If so, then who I must ask.

I'm not sure what you mean by "even Cowell knows he can do better"? Better at judging?

And, I don't believe I said that he is the best person in the entire world, the #1 person to scout the talent. But, seriously I can't think off hand who would be better. I see Gene Simmons (KISS frontman) will be on next week, do you think he'll be better? There are also strong rumors that Paul McCartney and Bob Dylan will be on this year. I bet my left nut they'll still be like all the other celebrity judges - lame.

And, I still don't understand on what basis any of you are saying that Cowell can't judge talent? Again, if he made some bonehead decisions in the boardroom, or on Idol, I'd understand. But, nobody has shown anything to suggest he can't. With 4 years of judging thousands and thousands of people, I'd dare say that he's the MOST experienced talent scout out there.

bABA, did Clay Aiken initially meet the criteria to sell the show and release multi-platinum records? Many of the singers in the Top 32 last year weren't that great and really didn't have the whole package when it came to selling the show, yet the judges still put them there, in front of the American public to be voted on. The public shapes their own criteria and votes based on it. In case you havn't noticed, AI has become more accepting towards singers who don't necessarily have the whole package. I mean -- don't get me wrong -- I know that there are still some obvious biases, but we seem to be getting more "good amatures" instead of "bad professionals" on the show.

@Cotton and Tony.

Thats why Simon is great for picking up people who will sell. We didn't think Aiken could get there but the judges took the chance annd he did. Thats why they're producers and we're not.

Tony. The talent judges are better, but only at judging the talents. its like an actor being able to pick out another good actor but the producer being able to pick out what would sell based on budgets, market trends and what not. Sure, talent becomes a big part of it, i dont say that but simon's job is not to just concentrate on talent. Thats the difference.

I beg to differ on it takes more then being a listener. Most people who listen to music are not "experts." They cannot pick out hte best singer with the best range, or the most talents guitarist...they pick out what they like. Simon Cowell has madea very succesful career out of selling records, it doesn't really matter if the records are good, his goal is to get the public to buy them. If the public gave two shits about whether or not singers were talents the Top 40 albums would look a lto different.

Secondly, on the hsow SImon can only judege the talent that walks in the door. So if some great singer doesn;t show up, or if he never hears them he has no way of actually doing anything about it. SO much of succeeding in life is connections, networking, and get your foot in the door.

The simple fact has, many, many people can sing...most of them are not capable of selling millions of records and making BMG money.

BY your statement above, since I cannot actually sing I have no right to listen to something and say this singer is atrocious. You do not have to be able to sing to knwo what sounds good, nor do you need to know how to sing to know what will sell well.

I know Cowell gets alot of hate becuase he's mean, but if you had watched the whole show (which from comments I gather you did not), you'll see he is one of the only judges to be unflinchingly honest. When something is good or great or he is blown away, he says so..when it hsi horrid he also says so. You always know exactly hwo he feels, none of Paula constntly trying to make it sound nice.

If these people want to be successful in the "American Idol" vain they had better learn to take some hard criticism.

There is a huge difference between being a singer and a star, and this people want stardom...well SImon is very good at looking at singing talent and picking out a star.

The singers on the show who they have judge talent are shitty, all they do is blow smoke up the ass of the contestants. The only guest judge who was ever any good was Quentin Tarentino, not a singer, but he was honest, he told the singers why he did or di dnot like them, and also he admitted when something was nto hsi taste but it might work for the masses.

If anything, the show has shown that having talent doesn;t make you the best person to spot other talent. I am a good programmer and mathematician, but I don;t think I am the best person at spotting other programmers/mathematicians...I have hired good and bad programmers.

Having knowledge of the discipline helps, and Simon does have alot of knowledge, its nto as if he knows nothing about music.

im glad AI dropped big because they are overkilling it havign it on so much

Well said, Ripper! =D>

You so pwned bABA. Which isn't really that hard, but still it was fun to read.

She replied to Mav, not me.

I'm so not pwned. You're Pwned. You're also a jamaican nun.

She did reply to Mav, but I feel he might be growing tired of me (go figure), so I had to go back to my favorite punching bag - you! Us Jamaican nuns need somebody to attack - it's in our code of ethics.

And, Ripper's points were so good she essentially made everything you say to look very foolish. Frankly I'm embarrassed for you.

Imagine how low that makes you if you're embarrassed for me!!! Jamaican nun who can't even deliver babies!!

jeffrey john from dallas. YUM!!! and he's a minister!!!!! and a homophobe (which means a closet case) !!! YAY :razz:

OK...the two brothers at the end were fabulous. That is seriously the most bull shit i have ever seen

two more hours for me!

Trust me...you will be pissed

why?! :???:

Man oh man did you see that Lamon guy? What a basket case!

lol that was hilarious

Instead of wasting 5 minutes on Leroy perhaps they could have shown us more of the sixteen people who went through. Or at least more of the funny untalented people. Leroy got old really quickly. So a large portion of what he said was incomprehensible, I get it. I got the gist of Leroy from the previews but the subtitled sequence after he was sent out of the judges room did make me laugh. Show us more scary bad people like the Gymnast. Who freaked me out. I'm glad the judges bypassed the critiquing of him because I have a feeling he would have surpassed Mary Roach in creepiness.

The first guy the judges lavished praise on I felt wasn't that good, he was all over the place and while I would have sent him through, it wouldn't be with Fantasia-like praise. My favourite tonight was that girl...who's name I can't recall, she was that good. :neutral:. That guy from Texas who led the prayer wasn't bad either.

Gene Simmons as the guest judge wasn't too bad, but mainly because he talked very little. Got annoyed by Randy who I found to be playing to the camera way too much, even more than usual. It was the first time I truly noticed it, and was a bit annoyed. Not as annoyed I got by the "walk out" staged by Paula and Randy, wasn't shocking or funny or purposeful the first time, it ain't any more so this year. Las Vegas, I'm sure the gimmicky crappy people will be at a minimum there.

ETA: Lamon didn't exist. Leroy was the crazy guy's name. I should really take notes.

I thought those two sucked ass. They were very nasally and weak. Gene Simmons also hit it on the head when he said they weren't performing music to their age - it was very teenage-ish music. The whole package was just wrong, and then they were cocky dumb asses on their way out. I was happy to see them go.

Speaking of Gene Simmons, he was the best guest judge ever. He gave a ton of constructive criticism and generally backed up his reason for saying no. He seemed very intelligent. The only one he got wrong was the slightly heavy set guy whose parents were musicians and he sang a 50's style song. Gene said he was great, but said no. Luckily the other 3 sent him through.

I agree. I enjoy the people who are bad, but appear to be very sincere and think they are good. Like the creepy projection guy you mentioned. Lamon was on crack, and I really didn't need to see 5 minutes of a crack addict making a fool of himself on TV. They could have seriously cut that down.

The guy who performed Sam Cooke - Change is Gone Come was the only good one imo, the one good looking girl was alright to, the rest were pretty damn sad/funny.

the two last brothers, where not to bad

they wouldnt survive the next round!

the one i really really liked was the first guy and the cute girl!

I can't believe some of the people they let through... the 2nd to last brothers were bizarre.. didn't like them at all.

Overall the people they are choosing to show are so below average.

do you guys think these people are really for real???? ](*,) ](*,)