Quality irony.

Im just curious where all the concern about healthcare was this time last year.

Could be any more about Obama's race?

I honestly don't think its about race. I can say the people at these events are being herded there. they are being told horrible lies or exaggerations of truth.

Death Squads-Sarah Palins quote has been used by Ron Paul Republicans for a while
In fact Lindon Larouche and loony CT's have been quite effect of equating Obama healthcare with Nazi's..by quite effective I mean I am shocked that anybody even listens to it.

They realy think under Obamas Healthcare teh following will happen.

Everybody will go before a panel that decides whether you get care or as the articles they read say Live or Die.
That the government will be able ot come into your home and tell you what normal and acceptable behavior is at anytime..failure to do so would mean they take your kids and send you too Jail
That the plan will force everyone to get vaccinated-which in their world means being loaded with bioweapons and or micro RFIDs and in the crazier groups actual viruses designed to kill you.
That Big Pharma really runs the government health care plan. Say good bye to homeopathic solutions like lemon peel on your feet and hello to treatments that actually have to prove what they claim before they can be sold as such. Which it doesn't do but something I would welcome.

Hell the Healthcare industry doesn't even have to do much this round. The democrats have a majority but only because the republicans are bat shit crazy now and the few moderates have become Blue Dog Dems so they don't even fully support it. Obama for his part isn't properly selling this and has allowed the town hall system to be derailed. Funny how these protesters are doing the work of the people who care less about them.

It's about race.

I think its quite likely there's an overlap between birthers and these fools.

It's angry, mostly aging white people going off the wall because...uh, Obama's gonna eat our old people and babies. I mean, the health care plan is a terrible idea that isn't going to help anybody, but no constructive criticisms are allowed to be thrown around in mainstream society anymore. This kind of shit went down when Clinton was in office, too, but having a Black House now adds plenty of fuel to the fire, so yeah, I can't help but mentally replace every "socialist" I hear with "nigger".

Only against the Pakis. Except Arsi. He's one of the good ones.

I think there is a clear need for health reform, the problem is that Obama, who ran as a centrist and whose own personal healthcare plan was that of a centrist, is being controlled by the ultra liberal congress.

No, the problem is Health Care itself. Or Republicans if you want to view it differently because, to me, the issue seems to be the most important to them. And they will do whatever it takes, moreso than any issue, to defeat any proposal that gains traction. Mention health care reform to a typical republican involved, and they will gladly throw their wallet, their life, everything away trying to kill it. All or nothing on this issue it has been.

Erm, whu?

If Obama were being controlled by AN ultra-liberal Congress (and our current Congress is anything but), then we'd be discussing single-payer govt-run health care instead of the public option that, low and behold, Obama ran on and is trying to get implemented. As it is, the Congress is messing around somewhere between a crappier public option than the one Obama wants vs. no reform at all.

I think the cracked.com bit on conspiracies covered the mind of the average Health Care nut pretty well

1. The average conspiracy theorist will argue with NASA, Nobel-prize winners and every expert in the world despite having fewer qualifications than the average fry cook.
2. Conspiracy theorists view logical argument as cheating.
3. Like pissing fetishes and tentacle rape comics, conspiracy theories are a problem made much worse by the Internet.
4. Never assume malice when incompetence will do.

I think it's more of a pent up anger that's just grabbed on to this issue rather than it just being about health care.

We've got politicians who Don't Care and Don't Listen. They shoved the TARP bill down our throats, hurriedly passed a Cap and Trade program, continue to pass "stimulus" bills and let the Fed have whatever leeway they want to "fix" the economy, continue to fund wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, continue to allow warrentless wiretapping, and now we have HR3200 and it's other versions that Congress was trying to push through the House as fast as possible but they've been stopped in their tracks atm.

People have had enough of dirty lying cheating politicians playing politics with their lives and I think that's where this backlash is coming from in addition to the issues being brought up by those who are against the so-called public option/health reform/health insurance reform.

There are certainly ideas out there that they can tackle in a meaningful way like prohibiting insurance companies from refusing coverage based on pre existing condition and allowing people to transfer coverage from one employer to the next so they aren't tied down to a job for coverage and allowing people more access to plans nationwide to increase competition, but instead Congress likes to create a 1000 page bill full of bloat and controversy.

Obama's initial campaign promises already had some weaknesses that we knew would be pounced on now. It was definitely one of his weaker proposals. Or, to put it better, it was already a little vague. In this environment that vagueness could be capitalized on by anyone looking to stop this plan cold. Its ridiculous, every little line-item squabble, along with the general stressing out over some form of affordable national opt-in coverage plan. Some weak final product will trickle through that will collapse in two years because its already doomed to failure.

Frankly, this round is going to implode and he'll just have to come up with a concise plan himself which he should then use the 2012 re-election campaign for in order to rally the general public behind it. Then he can just shove that plan through Congress no matter who is sitting there.

pretty much

No matter what issue Obama tackled the most this summer, it was always going to get this reception.

In other news, I read today that 57% of Americans say that the stimulus isn't working. That makes me curious - what do they define as it working? No one can truly say what would have happened if there had been no stimulus at all. It's as if people are already blaming the recession on Obama!

The problem with the US's healthcare system isn't that its private, its that America spends literally 2x as much on healthcare as everyone else. Part of this is a fee of the system, like 25-30% of all healthcare payments go to hospital bureaucracy, basically all the CEOs, paper jobs, etc. keeping the system running, which isn't necessary in a socialized system (in comparison less 1% of Canadian healthcare payment goes to bureaucracy). But also Americans are the unrivalled kings of unhealthiness and teenage pregnancy... sad but true. And if that wasn't enough, people who aren't covered let themselves get more sick before going in. This leads to more ER and surgery time which is more expensive for everyone involved

I've heard the "but insurance companies and healthcare bureaucracy creates more jobs and boost the economy" excuse, but that's balanced out by the people and companies who go bankrupt because of hospital bills

If Canadians paid twice as much healthcare taxes as they do, and the US's fees were cut in half, everyone would be talking about how much the Canadian system sucks cock. That's the real problem here... the prices are too high and the people don't take care of themselves enough. If you changed to a single payer system, the tax would still be big because so many go to the hospital, not to mention the waiting times... And you can guess how the hard right would react to that, and why they're in freak-out mode even to a moderate plan like Obama's. If Hillary got elected and was moving towards her full universal plan they'd be marching with pitchforks daily and talking about her as the Communist apocalypse

I 100% disagree. While his comments hold true as far as issues like welfare stereotyping, I do not think the collapse in healthcare support this time around is particularly based on racial stereotyping.

All the independant contractors of the dot.com generation, over credentialized grad students with hundreds of thousands in loans and no job, wealthy unemployed college kids, upper class lay-offs (of all racial backgrounds), a roll-back in outside consulting contracts, and thirty/forty something year olds swinging multiple short-term or part-time positions (like adjuncting, for example) are all demanding reform.

Yet everyone still freaks out that any move on the Federal level to provide some kind of basic coverage to the un- or self-employed is going to equal single-payer, nationalized healthcare, and/or explosions in coverage cost (as though the entire desire to see reform isn't based on the fact that coverage costs have already sky-rocketed).

Frankly, its effective negative campaigning by health companies, too many opinions being consulted at once, and the fact that Obama already promised while campaigning he would never have a mandatory coverage system. Republicans, but also to a lessser extent Democrats can't agree, can't get their acts together, and everyone is just flipping out. Its a circus show by now.

You go Barney Frank!




I don't even think the woman believed what she was saying. She seemed like a paid protestor.

Barney! You go girl! lol

Also saw this unabashedly liberal NY Congressman on Hard Ball yesterday saying pretty much fuck the republicans. I think Dems arer finally growing a pair!

Ha, just caught that on Deceiver.com, he seems like a generally sharp guy. I like his one quote about them: "“Disruption never helps your cause…. It just looks like you’re afraid to have rational discussion.”

There's maybe three genuine lefty liberals in the Senate right now. Feingold, Boxer and Franken. Thank god for the Jews.

What about Bernie? (again Jewish)

That was off the top of my head, but yeah.

I highly recommend buying the new Rolling Stones issue with the Beatles break-up investigation as its cover. Not only is that story very good and worth it, but it also includes an excellent article recapping and incriminating how the Obama administration has handled (or not handled) healthcare reform so far. After they were so embarrasingly on Obama's nuts last year, it's refreshing to see RS print a story that takes a no-holds barred dump on the Dems' job so far. I'd say it's the first front to back really great issue RS has had in years