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Should the requirements for President change? https://www.worldofkj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=48863 |
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Author: | Eagle [ Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
Nope, I think they're fine. |
Author: | Beeblebrox [ Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
Rorschach wrote: I mean, what if you have a candidate just like Obama but who was born in a foriegn country, yet has lived 95% of their life in the U.S.? Why should he be disqualified? Republicans went banana-fucking-dogshit-crazy because Obama's name SOUNDS foreign. Now imagine an actual foreigner running for president. I agree with Eagle. The requirements are fine. As it is, they've got to be among the most lax requirements for any job in America. |
Author: | Bradley Witherberry [ Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
Once China finally takes full financial and physical ownership of America, it won't matter - - the most respected president/chairman will be appointed straight from Beijing and will have a name like Chang Yung-fa, anyway... |
Author: | Groucho [ Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:40 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
I think we need to get rid of the requirement that you were born here. I mean, if someone was born in Canada and moved here when he was 2 months old, why should that person be disqualified? It's not his/her fault. You can't help where you are born. |
Author: | Tyler [ Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:48 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
Yeah, I don't think a Manchurian Candidate can be pulled off in this era. |
Author: | redspear [ Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
Beeblebrox wrote: Rorschach wrote: I mean, what if you have a candidate just like Obama but who was born in a foriegn country, yet has lived 95% of their life in the U.S.? Why should he be disqualified? Republicans went banana-fucking-dogshit-crazy because Obama's name SOUNDS foreign. Now imagine an actual foreigner running for president. I agree with Eagle. The requirements are fine. As it is, they've got to be among the most lax requirements for any job in America. Well if that were an issue they woudln't get elected anyways and any constitutional protection or restriction would be meaningless. I do agree though that the law needs to be changed to anyone who is a citizen for 35 years or more. |
Author: | Excel [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:09 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
The only that should go is natural born us citizen. |
Author: | Beeblebrox [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:51 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
redspear wrote: Well if that were an issue they woudln't get elected anyways and any constitutional protection or restriction would be meaningless. Okay then, if that's the case, then why have any restrictions at all? If a recent immigrant can get the votes to be president, then why shouldn't he/she be president? |
Author: | Shack [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:14 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
I think the 14 years makes the born in US thing not essential. If you've lived there for 14 years, you're American. |
Author: | Floydboy [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:10 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
I know people that have been in the states 14 years and still don't speak English. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing (some of them are really good friends), but I don't think 14 years is enough. I personally wouldn't lift the requirements, but the only way someone would convince me that it was ok is if they have been a citizen for 35 years or if they have lived in the states for 35 consecutive years after starting school here (ie start to study young or in college and reside in the states from that point on). |
Author: | nghtvsn [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:02 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
Being a natural born citizen. Would any other country (with sense) want a foreigner to just live in the country for a year (if that) and then start ruling the country that they have no allegiance or history with? I Dont Think So. Residency of 14 years same above...building a history/allegiance/relationship to this country Over 35 35 was old back then. If anything, we might want to raise the age limit. |
Author: | Groucho [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:18 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
nghtvsn wrote: Being a natural born citizen. Would any other country (with sense) want a foreigner to just live in the country for a year (if that) and then start ruling the country that they have no allegiance or history with? I Dont Think So. The key here is "natural born" though. A baby who is brought here and grows up here knows nothing but life in America -- why should that person be prevented from running for President? "Citizen" should obviously be a requirement, but there's really no reason you should be punished for something you have no control over (where you were born). We've got a couple of fairly good governors right now who some people think would be good Presidents, but they can't run, and there's really no reason why. (The examples I am thinking of are Michigan's Governor Jennifer Granholm and California's Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger; there may be others). |
Author: | neo_wolf [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:18 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
Reading the requirements in the OP, does that mean a Person born in Puerto Rico(we are born u.s citizens) can run for president if they are over 35 and have lived in the states for 14+years? |
Author: | Krem [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
neo_wolf wrote: Reading the requirements in the OP, does that mean a Person born in Puerto Rico(we are born u.s citizens) can run for president if they are over 35 and have lived in the states for 14+years? |
Author: | Krem [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
I don't agree with the "Natural Born Citizen" either. At the time of the signing of the constitution that was an issue, because of potential issues with allegiance to the British Crown. I think we can safely agree that these kinds of concerns are a thing of the past, since candidates are fairly well vetted (Obama incident notwithstanding). The only thing I would say is that in case of dual citizenship, the person should give up the citizenship of the other country. |
Author: | Obi-Wan Kaboozee4 [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
Groucho wrote: nghtvsn wrote: Being a natural born citizen. Would any other country (with sense) want a foreigner to just live in the country for a year (if that) and then start ruling the country that they have no allegiance or history with? I Dont Think So. The key here is "natural born" though. A baby who is brought here and grows up here knows nothing but life in America -- why should that person be prevented from running for President? "Citizen" should obviously be a requirement, but there's really no reason you should be punished for something you have no control over (where you were born). We've got a couple of fairly good governors right now who some people think would be good Presidents, but they can't run, and there's really no reason why. (The examples I am thinking of are Michigan's Governor Jennifer Granholm and California's Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger; there may be others). I think that's a good way to say it although there should be some requirement or age limit for that. |
Author: | junio [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:40 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
No but I'm pretty sure a Puerto Rican can't run for President. |
Author: | Krem [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
junio wrote: No but I'm pretty sure a Puerto Rican can't run for President. Sure they can. |
Author: | Groucho [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
neo_wolf wrote: Reading the requirements in the OP, does that mean a Person born in Puerto Rico(we are born u.s citizens) can run for president if they are over 35 and have lived in the states for 14+years? Yes, since Puerto Rico is part of the United States, in the same way McCain could run even though he was born in the Panama Canal Zone at a time when it was a US property. It's unclear whether someone born in a foreign country whose parents are just visiting or working there would be eligible though, and that's just not right. If a child's parents are born in Japan because the parents are in the military and are based there, does that mean the child can't run for President? It seems that way... (ignoring issues about whether the child is born on a US base -- let's suppose the child is not). |
Author: | Groucho [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
Krem wrote: I don't agree with the "Natural Born Citizen" either. At the time of the signing of the constitution that was an issue, because of potential issues with allegiance to the British Crown. I think we can safely agree that these kinds of concerns are a thing of the past, since candidates are fairly well vetted (Obama incident notwithstanding). The only thing I would say is that in case of dual citizenship, the person should give up the citizenship of the other country. LOL! When I saw your link, I thought "Oh no, don't tell me he's one of those crackpots who thinks Obama wasn't born in Hawaii." You got me good! ![]() |
Author: | Krem [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
I'm not a constitutional scholar, but to me the phrase "natural born U.S. citizen" means somebody who was a U.S. citizen at the time of birth. Which would qualify anyone whose parents are American, without regard for where they're born. There's no precedent to this, as every U.S. president was born within the U.S. proper, but I doubt that if someone made a constitutional challenge they would win. |
Author: | Groucho [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
Krem wrote: I'm not a constitutional scholar, but to me the phrase "natural born U.S. citizen" means somebody who was a U.S. citizen at the time of birth. Which would qualify anyone whose parents are American, without regard for where they're born. You may be right now that I think about it. I admittedly haven't done any research on this. |
Author: | junio [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
Quote: September 19, 2003 Copyright © 2003 PUERTO RICO HERALD. All Rights Reserved. Can A Puerto Rican Become President Of The United States? The answer to this broad question is, "maybe yes and maybe no." As "statutory citizens," the nearly four million Americans born in Puerto Rico might not be considered "natural born," a Constitutional requirement to become President of the United States. Let’s look at a few cases! CASE # 1 Jose Rodriguez, born in Ponce, Puerto Rico, moves with his parents to New Jersey at the age of two. After arriving in their new home, his brother, Manuel, is born. Forty years later, both are prominent politicians and aspire to run for the Presidency. Manuel, as a "natural born" American citizen qualifies. Jose, having been born in Puerto Rico, holds "statutory American citizenship," deriving from an act of the U.S. Congress in 1917. QUESTION: Does Jose qualify to be elected President of the United States? ANSWER: Maybe yes and maybe no! Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution states "No Person except a "natural born" Citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of President; …" Constitutional scholars can point to no definitive case law after 1790, the year of the Constitution’s enactment, establishing the eligibility of Americans with "statutory" citizenship to hold the office of President. Obviously the Constitution’s framers wished to exclude newly arrived immigrants admitted to citizenship in the newly formed republic, especially their recent enemies. They had just thrown off an English king and did not wish to see a British president. To presently exclude American citizens born in U.S. territories, however, is considered by most Constitutional scholars to be a stretch. CASE # 2 Sgt. Robert Douglas and his wife Wendy, both "natural born" American citizens, give birth to a daughter, Jennifer, while stationed at Ft. Buchanan in Puerto Rico. Five months after the girl’s birth, the family rotates back to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where Jennifer grows up. Forty years later, she aspires to become the third female President of the United States. QUESTION: Is Jennifer a "natural born" American citizen and therefore eligible to be elected to the highest office in the land, even though she was born on the island of Puerto Rico? ANSWER: Maybe yes and maybe no! Amendment XIV, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution states "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." Even though Jennifer was born in Puerto Rico, her parents were not "resident" there. Usually members of the U.S. military retain residency in their "home of record," in the case of the Douglas family, Kansas. However, even if she was to be considered "Puerto Rican born" her citizenship would unlikely be considered "statutory." Before the passage of the Panama Canal Treaties in 1977, the Panama Canal Zone had been a U.S. possession, with some families of "natural born" American citizens permanently residing there for generations. In order to protect the "natural born," status of anyone born in the Zone to at least one citizen-parent, Congress passed 8 USC 1403. Experts cite other legislation providing the same "protection" to the offspring of "natural born" American citizens in the U.S. territories. CASE # 3 The year is 2010. Puerto Rico has become a state of the Union. Its senior Member in the U.S. Senate, Pablo Aponte, a native of Arecibo, enters the race for the Presidency. One of his opponents makes a campaign issue of the fact that Sen. Aponte is not qualified to become President, since he is not a "natural born" American citizen. QUESTION: Is Sen. Aponte’s opponent correct? ANSWER: Maybe yes and maybe no! No one seems clear on this issue. The Congressional offices of Hawaii and Alaska, both former U.S. territories turned states, have no definitive answer and, as yet, no one from those new states has made a run for the Presidency. In 1964 the late Sen. Barry Goldwater accepted the nomination of the Republican Party to run against incumbent President Lyndon Johnson. Goldwater was born near Phoenix in 1909, three years before the Arizona territory was admitted to statehood. The nature of his citizenship was never raised seriously as an issue and, had he won the election, all assume that he would have been seated. Perhaps Sen. Aponte would enjoy the same consideration. Interest in this question was raised earlier this month when the New York Times published an editorial in favor of current efforts by Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) and Congressman Vic Snyder (D-AR) to rid the Constitution of the requirement that only "natural born" citizens be eligible to be seated as President of the United States. The editorial points out that, since the writing of the Constitution, the U.S. has become a nation of immigrants, with some living in residence for decades. These individuals, by their loyalty and contributions to the nation, clearly deserve to be considered eligible to become President, including some 700 immigrants whose valor in combat warranted the bestowal of the nation’s highest citation, the Congressional Medal of Honor. Mr. Hatch's amendment would make anyone who has been a citizen for 20 years, and a resident for 14, eligible for the presidency, while Mr. Snyder's would require a 35-year waiting period. The Hatch-Snyder amendment makes no mention of Presidential eligibility for the many Americans whose citizenship is "statutory," and maybe it should. The loyalty and contribution to the nation of most Puerto Ricans is unassailable. Four "statutory" American citizens from Puerto Rico were posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor while fighting in the nation’s wars. Puerto Ricans, such as Dr. Antonia Novello from Fajardo could be the nation’s Surgeon General but she might not be eligible for the Presidency. Orlando Figueroa, from Mayaguez, can run NASA’s Mars program but might not qualify to sit behind the President’s desk. Become a Constitutional expert! You answer the question. Does a "statutory" Puerto Rican American citizen qualify under the U.S. Constitution to be President of the United States? http://www.puertorico-herald.org/issues ... 38-en.html |
Author: | Groucho [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
Actually, Congress has traditionally proclaimed that when a new territory comes in that everyone born there is a "natural born citizen". For Puerto Rico, that was in a law passed in 1899. So I'd disagree with the comment in the above thread... Here's an excerpt from http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html Separate sections handle territories that the United States has acquired over time, such as Puerto Rico (8 USC 1402), Alaska (8 USC 1404), Hawaii (8 USC 1405), the U.S. Virgin Islands (8 USC 1406), and Guam (8 USC 1407). Each of these sections confer citizenship on persons living in these territories as of a certain date, and usually confer natural-born status on persons born in those territories after that date. For example, for Puerto Rico, all persons born in Puerto Rico between April 11, 1899, and January 12, 1941, are automatically conferred citizenship as of the date the law was signed by the President (June 27, 1952). Additionally, all persons born in Puerto Rico on or after January 13, 1941, are natural-born citizens of the United States. Note that because of when the law was passed, for some, the natural-born status was retroactive. |
Author: | junio [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Should the requirements for President change? |
Perhaps you're right. Maybe I should try and run and see what happens. |
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