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The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone
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Author:  Beeblebrox [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/us/po ... .html?_r=1

A VERY promising start.

Quote:
President Obama signed executive orders Thursday directing the Central Intelligence Agency to shut what remains of its network of secret prisons and ordering the closing of the Guantánamo detention camp within a year, government officials said.

The orders, which are the first steps in undoing detention policies of former President George W. Bush, rewrite American rules for the detention of terrorism suspects. They require an immediate review of the 245 detainees still held at the naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, to determine if they should be transferred, released or prosecuted.

And the orders bring to an end a Central Intelligence Agency program that kept terrorism suspects in secret custody for months or years, a practice that has brought fierce criticism from foreign governments and human rights activists. They will also prohibit the C.I.A. from using coercive interrogation methods, requiring the agency to follow the same rules used by the military in interrogating terrorism suspects, government officials said.


And then there's this:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 52406.html

Quote:
President Obama is moving quickly to undo the Bush administration's regime of secrecy.

Yesterday, he repealed a 2001 executive order granting former presidents, and vice presidents, the ability to seal their papers forever.

Obama vowed during the campaign to overturn the order, as part of a government "transparency" agenda.

Obama said: "Going forward, any time the American people want to know something that I or a former president wants to withhold, we will have to consult with the attorney general and the White House counsel, whose business it is to ensure compliance with the rule of law."

"Information will not be withheld just because I say so. It will be be held -- withheld because a separate authority believes my request is well grounded in the Constitution," Obama said.

"Let me say it as simply as I can. Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency."

He also issued fresh directive on how to interpret the Freedom of Information Act as a result the officials and agencies would have to lean toward making information public instead of coming up with legal justification for withholding it.

"The Freedom of Information Act is perhaps the most powerful instrument we have for making our government honest and transparent, and of holding it accountable," he added.


Elections have consequences, folks.

Author:  Groaning [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

No more waterboarding! YAH!

Author:  Groucho [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

Glad to see he's not shying away from his promises.

Author:  Beeblebrox [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

There's a lot of political belly-aching now over where to put the Gitmo detainees once Gitmo is closed. Apparently, no politicians, Democrats or Republicans, want them in their backyards.

These people are colossal idiots. Our prisons house the most dangerous and violent criminals in America, including domestic terrorists. Why not Gitmo detainees? They do not have superpowers as far as I know and pose no greater danger than any other prisoner. It's politicking, pure and simple.

Author:  Eagle [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

Not entirely true, the moronic John Murtha said he would take them in PA (he's a moron in general, not for this decision).

Author:  bABA [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

Beeblebrox wrote:
There's a lot of political belly-aching now over where to put the Gitmo detainees once Gitmo is closed. Apparently, no politicians, Democrats or Republicans, want them in their backyards.

These people are colossal idiots. Our prisons house the most dangerous and violent criminals in America, including domestic terrorists. Why not Gitmo detainees? They do not have superpowers as far as I know and pose no greater danger than any other prisoner. It's politicking, pure and simple.


considering most of the gitmo prisoners have been let go for being innocent since 2001, chances are, they have more to fear from the US prisons than anyone in the US. Whats the worst convinction to come out of gitmo? Driving Osama Bin Ladin? last i checked, you win academies for that.

Author:  Beeblebrox [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

Eagle wrote:
Not entirely true, the moronic John Murtha said he would take them in PA (he's a moron in general, not for this decision).


Murtha is corrupt, not stupid. Bush is the moron by which other morons are measured. But yes, Murtha is one of the few who have offered to take them.

Gov. Sebelius of Kansas rejected the idea of sending them to her state, even though she supports closing Gitmo. Classic. :roll:

Author:  Beeblebrox [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

bABA wrote:
considering most of the gitmo prisoners have been let go for being innocent since 2001, chances are, they have more to fear from the US prisons than anyone in the US. Whats the worst convinction to come out of gitmo? Driving Osama Bin Ladin? last i checked, you win academies for that.


Many of them can't be convicted because they were tortured (way to protect us, Bush administration). Most of them still have no charges brought against them.

Only a handful are the worst of the worst. I'm fully confident, however, that our prison system is quite adequate to deal with them until they can be given a trial.

Author:  bABA [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

Beeblebrox wrote:
bABA wrote:
considering most of the gitmo prisoners have been let go for being innocent since 2001, chances are, they have more to fear from the US prisons than anyone in the US. Whats the worst convinction to come out of gitmo? Driving Osama Bin Ladin? last i checked, you win academies for that.


Many of them can't be convicted because they were tortured (way to protect us, Bush administration). Most of them still have no charges brought against them.

Only a handful are the worst of the worst. I'm fully confident, however, that our prison system is quite adequate to deal with them until they can be given a trial.


yup. like i said, with gitmo's innocent ratio to guilty ratio if going by the stats of people let out is anything to go by, most of them don't even pose any harm to anyone .. if anything .. they should be scared.

Author:  Jim Halpert [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

happy to see these things done. Totally necessary. It will be interesting to see where they will be put. I read in one CNN article some congressman proposed Alcatraz. Which of course got Pelosi all in a fit.

Author:  Eagle [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

I can't stand Pelosi, and by what I'm hearing, neither can Obama. I wish there was some way to get rid of her.

Author:  Jim Halpert [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

Eagle wrote:
I can't stand Pelosi, and by what I'm hearing, neither can Obama. I wish there was some way to get rid of her.


that'd be nice

Author:  Beeblebrox [ Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

Eagle wrote:
I can't stand Pelosi, and by what I'm hearing, neither can Obama. I wish there was some way to get rid of her.


I'm not a big fan of any of the Democratic leadership (and the Republican leadership is worse than a joke). I want new blood like Jim Webb at the helm.

Author:  Beeblebrox [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

A friend of mine says we should send the detainees to Texas. That would be PERFECT.

Author:  FILMO [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

It would be funny if they build a house on the Bush farm area for them.

Author:  Caius [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

Quote:
Two suspected U.S missile attacks killed 18 people Friday in Pakistan just east of the Afghan border, security officials said, the first such strikes since the inauguration of President Barack Obama.

AP Link

Author:  bABA [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

Caius wrote:
Quote:
Two suspected U.S missile attacks killed 18 people Friday in Pakistan just east of the Afghan border, security officials said, the first such strikes since the inauguration of President Barack Obama.

AP Link


dont really see the relevance considering theres been 1 such strike on a weekly basis since this fall. obama hasn't really changed any strategies there yet.

Author:  Caius [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

bABA wrote:
Caius wrote:
Quote:
Two suspected U.S missile attacks killed 18 people Friday in Pakistan just east of the Afghan border, security officials said, the first such strikes since the inauguration of President Barack Obama.

AP Link


dont really see the relevance considering theres been 1 such strike on a weekly basis since this fall. obama hasn't really changed any strategies there yet.

I agree, so far it seems like this is pretty much the Bush policy in the region. Unlike Bush, hopefully Obama's refocus on Afghanistan takes a different approach concerning the drug trade.

Author:  nghtvsn [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

I must admit it. I'm very happy with Obama's start so far. I heard the EO annoucements (not the details at first) and thought "oh great..." but after learning what they were I'm impressed so far. The govt may not actually close all secret prisons and still conduct torture but at least Obama is putting stuff in writing to the contrary which is most important.

Author:  Chippy [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

Closing down Guantanamo was a bad idea.

Author:  Groucho [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

munkyfromlondon wrote:
Closing down Guantanamo was a bad idea.



Well! You've convinced me! :roll:

Author:  Chippy [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

I wasn't trying to convince you.

Why are you such a pompous ass?

Author:  Groucho [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

munkyfromlondon wrote:
I wasn't trying to convince you.

Why are you such a pompous ass?


Come now, at least give your reasons why you believe something. This is supposed to be a discussion board after all.

Author:  Chippy [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

Because those prisoners will come here. And eventually be sent back to their countries where they will be criminals again.

Author:  bABA [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The first week - Gitmo, torture, and secret prisons are gone

munkyfromlondon wrote:
I wasn't trying to convince you.

Why are you such a pompous ass?


do you realize that out of the 700 people detained in gitmo, 500 have only been set free cause they were completely innocent ... and only 5 have been charged. with that ratio, the people who come to the US out of the 200 or so left .... only 10 you need to worry about. like i said before, the other 190 have more to worry from you than you do from them. when they go back to their countries, they won't go back to being criminals cause they weren't to begin with. again, more than anything, the US holding them in gitmo has destroyed their lives because host countries don't want these people back at all on simply what they've been associated with.

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