I dont like the idea. I'm sure obama doesnt either because when he leaves office and if the next president is a republican, they'll do the same thing to him.

I dont like the idea. I'm sure obama doesnt either because when he leaves office and if the next president is a republican, they'll do the same thing to him.

Well, at first I was going to say "How can they if there is nothing there to bring charges about?" but then I realized you did mention "Republicans"....

What's the crime?

Invading a sovereign country for starters.

I see. How many years did every president from Roosevelt to Clinton spend in prison, combined?

Based on how you phrased that, zero?

I'd add to Invasion of a sovereign country -

Lying to the American people
Violations of the Geneva Convention

Based on how you phrased that, zero?

I'd add to Invasion of a sovereign country -

Lying to the American people

Violations of the Geneva Convention

I still don't see how that qualifies as a crime.

?

What's the crime?

What's so hard to understand? Invading a sovereign country is not a crime in the U.S. It is within the president's power under the Constitution, with Congress's authorization.

Does your mommy still give you spankings?

Authorization of torture.

Now, if some overseas courts want to engage in this, then more power to them. Good luck enforcing subpoenas, though.

Indeed. It was difficult just getting Jack Bauer in front of a committee.

Right. So there will be a long and drawn out legal argument over what is torture. And then, let's say the Supreme Court agrees that water boarding is torture, and that Bush had every reason to believe that it was torture (which, personally, I don't think will happen). There's still the argument that the protection of the U.S. required it. I don't buy that argument, but I am not so sure about the courts.

Now, if some overseas courts want to engage in this, then more power to them. Good luck enforcing subpoenas, though.

GW violated his constitutional oath to faithfully execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty under Article II, Section 3 of the Constitution "to take care that the laws be faithfully executed", violated United States law by invading the sovereign country of Iraq in violation of the United Nations Charter.

Waterboarding is torture. US soldiers were prosecuted for waterboarding during Vietnam. That precedent exists. Sleep deprivation is also torture, although probably less likely to lead to criminal prosecution, certainly not on its own.

Bush not believing or knowing that it was torture is irrelevant. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse, as I'm sure Groucho would confirm.

And the argument that US protection required it is without merit. Torture does not work. It produces unreliable information and is among the least effective interrogation techniques available.

The bottom line is that it is a war crime.

If overseas courts indict, then neither a subpoena nor extradition (which will never happen) are completely necessary. It would be enough that these guys can never set foot in those countries without being immediately arrested.