World of KJ
https://www.worldofkj.com/forum/

Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
https://www.worldofkj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=46653		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Eagle [ Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
:shades:

I am ECSTATIC with the people Obama has picked for his cabinet and various advisory positions, especially his economic team. More so, I have always had a big problem with Obama's economic plan in general, including it's intent to raise taxes on the upper class and small businesses. Fortunately, with the people he picked and recent statements from those close to Obama, it's become very clear that he won't be raising taxes on the upper class, and that's great news for the economy.

All of the above makes me even happier that I voted for him, and while it's still very likely he will allow the Bush tax cuts to expire in 2010, I now have faith he will extend them if the economy is still in the dumps, and at worst let them expire in 2010 if the economy is recovering.

Greatness. Keep it up Obama, you're off to a great start. I really think he could bring a lot of positive change in the next 4 years, someone just needs to off a supreme court justice and i'll be living a virtual orgasm.
Author:  getluv [ Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
i see taxes rising in future in America. the trillion dollar debt would have to start being paid off at some stage.
Author:  Beeblebrox [ Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
Emily Gilmore wrote:
the trillion dollar debt would have to start being paid off at some stage.


Correction: The ELEVEN trillion dollar debt.
Author:  Gulli [ Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
Beeblebrox wrote:
Emily Gilmore wrote:
the trillion dollar debt would have to start being paid off at some stage.


Correction: The ELEVEN trillion dollar debt.


They could always default :unsure:
Author:  gardenia.11/14.... [ Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
or let deflation take its course..
Author:  Eagle [ Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
I still don't understand why so many people are so damn concerned about the ever growing national debt.

It will ALWAYS be there, and so long as it is in proportion to our GDP, it isn't an issue. In times of recession, the deficit naturally grows as we raise spending, and when the recovery comes around, the budget will need to be balanced and the deficit brought back down a bit. BUT for now, Obama needs to spend, spend, spend and worry about the deficit LATER, because it's honestly not a huge issue.

Considering 9/11, Katrina, the Iraq War, Tax Cuts, Stimulus Packages and Bailouts ... the deficit is remarkably in check.
Author:  nghtvsn [ Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
Eagle wrote:
:shades:

I am ECSTATIC with the people Obama has picked for his cabinet and various advisory positions, especially his economic team. More so, I have always had a big problem with Obama's economic plan in general, including it's intent to raise taxes on the upper class and small businesses. Fortunately, with the people he picked and recent statements from those close to Obama, it's become very clear that he won't be raising taxes on the upper class, and that's great news for the economy.

All of the above makes me even happier that I voted for him, and while it's still very likely he will allow the Bush tax cuts to expire in 2010, I now have faith he will extend them if the economy is still in the dumps, and at worst let them expire in 2010 if the economy is recovering.

Greatness. Keep it up Obama, you're off to a great start. I really think he could bring a lot of positive change in the next 4 years, someone just needs to off a supreme court justice and i'll be living a virtual orgasm.


I don't understand this praise. I hate to keep harping on the same issues but he did promote himself on Change during his campaign. He isn't going to end the war in Iraq, he will expand in Afghanistan, he voted to continue warrantless wiretapping, and was a big pusher of the Steal $$ from Taxpayers bill. Now, because of Paulson and Co. we'll be looking at a future where taxes Will certainly rise either directly or indirectly. There's no escaping the debt hole we're being tossed in.

Positive change. What would be positive is if he rolled back the Patriot Act, ended warrentless spying, reigned in the CIA, audited the Fed and rework/get rid of No Child Left Behind, Healthcare, Social Security and Immigration. He'll get his chance with Congress in dem control but most of the stuff I listed is just fantasy cuz I know he won't change any of it meaningfully.
Author:  Groucho [ Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
nghtvsn wrote:
Eagle wrote:
:shades:

I am ECSTATIC with the people Obama has picked for his cabinet and various advisory positions, especially his economic team. More so, I have always had a big problem with Obama's economic plan in general, including it's intent to raise taxes on the upper class and small businesses. Fortunately, with the people he picked and recent statements from those close to Obama, it's become very clear that he won't be raising taxes on the upper class, and that's great news for the economy.

All of the above makes me even happier that I voted for him, and while it's still very likely he will allow the Bush tax cuts to expire in 2010, I now have faith he will extend them if the economy is still in the dumps, and at worst let them expire in 2010 if the economy is recovering.

Greatness. Keep it up Obama, you're off to a great start. I really think he could bring a lot of positive change in the next 4 years, someone just needs to off a supreme court justice and i'll be living a virtual orgasm.


I don't understand this praise. I hate to keep harping on the same issues but he did promote himself on Change during his campaign. He isn't going to end the war in Iraq, he will expand in Afghanistan, he voted to continue warrantless wiretapping, and was a big pusher of the Steal $$ from Taxpayers bill. Now, because of Paulson and Co. we'll be looking at a future where taxes Will certainly rise either directly or indirectly. There's no escaping the debt hole we're being tossed in.

Positive change. What would be positive is if he rolled back the Patriot Act, ended warrentless spying, reigned in the CIA, audited the Fed and rework/get rid of No Child Left Behind, Healthcare, Social Security and Immigration. He'll get his chance with Congress in dem control but most of the stuff I listed is just fantasy cuz I know he won't change any of it meaningfully.


And, of course, if he instead picked a bunch of unknowns who had no experience, you'd be cheering him on because he embodied "change." :roll:

No, instead, he picked the smartest and best people he could (something we haven't seen in 8 years), and you're criticizing him.

The change is that we are having responsible adults running our government now, who know what they're doing and are chosen based on their competence and not their loyalty. The way the government is being run is the change.
Author:  Jim Halpert [ Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
wont raise taxes on the upper class? I haven't heard that anywhere, in all his press conferences he's dodged the question and talked about how he's cutting taxes for the majority. he has never said that he won't raise taxes on the upper class
Author:  Eagle [ Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
You're out of the loop then.

http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com ... t-in-2009/

The writing has been on the wall regarding this for a while, and just recently word has started leaking that he won't rescind the tax cuts, and will instead wait until 2010 to decide what to do.
Author:  FILMO [ Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
Eagle wrote:
I still don't understand why so many people are so damn concerned about the ever growing national debt.

It will ALWAYS be there, and so long as it is in proportion to our GDP, it isn't an issue. In times of recession, the deficit naturally grows as we raise spending, and when the recovery comes around, the budget will need to be balanced and the deficit brought back down a bit. BUT for now, Obama needs to spend, spend, spend and worry about the deficit LATER, because it's honestly not a huge issue.

Considering 9/11, Katrina, the Iraq War, Tax Cuts, Stimulus Packages and Bailouts ... the deficit is remarkably in check.



Well......the problem is.....do you want to live in a society where you work to pay taxes that are used to pay back interests for borrowed money?


Sure I guess now Obama raising the deficit to give input to the economy is right.......but the problem is...under Bush they didnt do shit to stabilize the budged....and that doesnt look good in the eyes of the giving countries.
Author:  Eagle [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
Pay taxes used to pay back interest on borrowed money?! Oh boy. Believe it or not, some believe the government makes a significant amount of money on the deficit, particularly in times when the US dollar is weak.

Please don't worry about the deficit. At this point, it's a non-issue.
Author:  Gulli [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
Eagle wrote:
Pay taxes used to pay back interest on borrowed money?! Oh boy. Believe it or not, some believe the government makes a significant amount of money on the deficit, particularly in times when the US dollar is weak.

Please don't worry about the deficit. At this point, it's a non-issue.


Hope you feel the same way if Asia ever decides to call in US credit.
Author:  Eagle [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
Yes, because cutting of the biggest buyer of your goods would be great for their economy!
Author:  Gulli [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
The British and German's thought the same in the 1890s. Look what happened there.
Author:  Eagle [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
And yet Asia continues to by US securities, and will continue to do so. What you are describing is not realistic, and thus not worth continuing to discuss.
Author:  Gulli [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
Say that in 20 years when the biggest market for Chinese goods is China and India. The latest Niall Ferguson gives an interesting insight into how bad this could get in 20 years if its ignored like you suggest.
Author:  Eagle [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
OK, in a decade, we can revisit the issue. For now, it's not worth a second thought.
Author:  FILMO [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
Eagle wrote:
OK, in a decade, we can revisit the issue. For now, it's not worth a second thought.



Ok I can agree on that. I guess now he (Obama) has to make debt to keep the economy alive.....but in the long run (10-20 years) the US folks also need a guarantee that in good times the deficit will be lowered.
Author:  Beeblebrox [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
Eagle wrote:
In times of recession, the deficit naturally grows as we raise spending, and when the recovery comes around, the budget will need to be balanced and the deficit brought back down a bit. BUT for now, Obama needs to spend, spend, spend and worry about the deficit LATER, because it's honestly not a huge issue.


I agree with you about the spending, but the problem here is that what you describe didn't happen. During the Bush boom years, the deficit continued to skyrocket and the debt doubled to $10 trillion.

The Bush/Republican borrowing-and-spending spree actually puts the Obama administration in a bind in terms of actually dealing with the current crisis since it puts limits, both financially and politically, on what he can do. Had Bush and the Republicans actually been, you know, fiscally responsible, Obama would have a lot more tools at his disposal to fix this mess.
Author:  Eagle [ Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
I find it hard to pin it all on the Bush administration.

During Bush's administration we had a terrorist attack on a scale unseen since Pearl Harbor, we had a major US city wiped of the map by natural disaster, taxes were lowered significantly, stimulus checks were sent out, and we engaged in two major distinct military efforts.

You disagree with going to war, so you may look at that as being fiscally irresponsible. I would disagree, because that's a cost I feel our president had no way to avoid in order to protect our national security.

Those issues alone are trillions of dollars in spending that most presidents never face, and that I refuse to blame Bush for, and think it's unfair for anyone to do so. The path Bush's presidency took never allowed for the reduction in spending needed to balance a deficit, and while there are many things you can fault him for, that I don't think is one of them.

Obama will be different. The war is winding down, and assuming he gets 8 years, by the end of his presidency we should see a path similar to how Clinton left the deficit. He's going to spend heavily in the first two years, and then things should slow down and begin to reverse course during the second term, where I would expect him to begin reduction of the deficit. By that time, he will have significant increased revenue, near $100 billion a year, from the expiration of Bush's tax cuts, and the war in Iraq will be over and done with.

Even then, the deficit will never go away! It shouldn't ever go away, there is no need for it to go away, it does more good than you realize.
Author:  Beeblebrox [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
Eagle wrote:
During Bush's administration we had a terrorist attack on a scale unseen since Pearl Harbor, we had a major US city wiped of the map by natural disaster, taxes were lowered significantly, stimulus checks were sent out, and we engaged in two major distinct military efforts.

You disagree with going to war, so you may look at that as being fiscally irresponsible. I would disagree, because that's a cost I feel our president had no way to avoid in order to protect our national security.


That would be the terrorist attack that Bush was explicitly warned about but ignored. And even if there was nothing he could have done about it, his response was to squander WORLD-WIDE good will with a war of choice that had NOTHING at all to do with the attacks. Nothing. Even Bush admits that. That was mostly his fault and partly the fault of the idiots in Congress who let him do it.

The major city that was wiped off the map suffered because Bush appointed a fucking Arabian horse judge to head FEMA. That's 100% his fault.

And the taxes that were lowered significantly, Bush had nothing to do with that? That was HIS plan. Ditto the stimulus checks, which btw have accomplished exactly dick.

What I don't entirely blame him for is the financial crisis. That was largely due to Clinton and the Republican congress's deregulation efforts in 1999. What I DO blame him for is the insane borrowing-and-spending that have impeded Obama's ability to really do as much as he can to solve the crisis. I think he's going to spend the money because it has to be done, but it would be a lot easier to do had Bush not run-up that $11 trillion debt.

Of course, I also credit Bush with finally ending the farce that was the Republican claims to fiscal responsibility and smaller government. We libs always knew it was a joke, but Bush and his rubber-stamp Republican congress proved us right.
Author:  Grill [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
bump...

so what is the deal with this...is he setting the ground-work that no matter what he does, things will suck and he is not to be blamed.

Also what did the economy do with the last stimulus $, it didn't seem to be more than an hour's ripple. And now he wants to do more at the expense of the future. GREAT? Think things are going to suck with him if the stimulus package is his best idea!!!


FAIRFAX, Va. (AP) -- President-elect Barack Obama urged dubious lawmakers Thursday to work with him "day and night, on weekends if necessary" to approve the largest taxpayer-funded stimulus ever, warning in almost apocalyptic terms that a dire economic future was certain without it.
Author:  FILMO [ Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
To solution in the long run is anyway to get people used to a lower living standard (buy less etc....).
I guess every move to get the economy back on the old (in my opinion overheated) level is wrong.
And thats not only for the US its also for Europe.

And then I still wonder: who is currently buying all those FED Bonds?
Author:  A. G. [ Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thumbs UP to Obama's Economic Plan
I'm not a fan of the stimulus plan, it seems like it will be just a lot of make-work that will give a temporary injection to the economy for a few years and probably create another bubble along the way.

Some stimulus is understandable but I'd much rather he focused more on health care, that is a key thing bleeding both companies and average people. Wasn't the health care plan one of the centerpieces of his campaign? How come we don't hear more about it?

Quote:
During Bush's administration we had a terrorist attack on a scale unseen since Pearl Harbor

The pearl harbor analogies contributed to the misguided policies that followed. Pearl Harbor was attacked by Imperial Japan. 9/11 was an attack by 19 guys with box cutters.
Page 1 of 4 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/