Bush requests $700,000,000,000
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Beeblebrox
All Star Poster
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm
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 Bush requests $700,000,000,000 That's how much Bush is requesting from taxpayers to fix this mess. His mess. His party's mess.
So congratulations Bush supporters. You got your trillion dollar bail out of Wall Street. All thanks to the deregulation you wanted. You got your $500 billion war. Your trillion dollar tax cut, that will now have to be made up with massive tax increases. Meaning that you got your $400 billion deficit that is about to explode to over $1 trillion. Meaning that you also got your $10 trillion deficit ceiling raised to $11 trillion.
Hope you're happy.
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:02 am |
 
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nghtvsn
Extraordinary
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:13 pm
Posts: 11016
Location: Warren Theatre Oklahoma
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 Beeblebrox wrote: That's how much Bush is requesting from taxpayers to fix this mess. His mess. His party's mess.
So congratulations Bush supporters. You got your trillion dollar bail out of Wall Street. All thanks to the deregulation you wanted. You got your $500 billion war. Your trillion dollar tax cut, that will now have to be made up with massive tax increases. Meaning that you got your $400 billion deficit that is about to explode to over $1 trillion. Meaning that you also got your $10 trillion deficit ceiling raised to $11 trillion.
Hope you're happy. How can you possibly attempt to lay the blame for all of this on one party? The culprits to this fiasco were lenders who gave out loans to people who couldn't afford them, lenders who signed up people to ARM or interest only mortgages who shouldn't have done those in the first place, and banks and investment firms that traded mortgage backed securities that were given inflated ratings that hid their actual value. Those are just some reasons as to who is to blame here. I'd throw in Greenspan, Congress, the Fed, Paulson, Bernanke, Cox and yes Bush. They're all cronies in this instance. It's a shame someone or some institution can't go after someone for all this mess. Instead we get selective bailouts and increasing debt that is impossible to repay. I don't even know why we even bother anymore. Back to the original idea of blame though, none of these spending bills, war funding, trade agreements or anything else involving cash and trade got past dear Bush without first going through Congress which has pretty much laid down since 2006.
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:42 am |
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A. G.
Draughty
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:23 am
Posts: 13347
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 If we're lucky it'll be 700b but I bet it goes up to like 1.2 trillion.
I wonder if Obama made a mistake endorsing this bailout as a number of smart people are against it. Hopefully that decision won't come back to bite him.
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:48 am |
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xiayun
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:41 pm
Posts: 25109
Location: San Mateo, CA
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 A little late for breaking the news  . We already have a discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=44835&start=150. _________________Recent watched movies: American Hustle - B+ Inside Llewyn Davis - B Before Midnight - A 12 Years a Slave - A- The Hunger Games: Catching Fire - A- My thoughts on box office
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:11 am |
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Beeblebrox
All Star Poster
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 nghtvsn wrote: How can you possibly attempt to lay the blame for all of this on one party?
[...]
Back to the original idea of blame though, none of these spending bills, war funding, trade agreements or anything else involving cash and trade got past dear Bush without first going through Congress which has pretty much laid down since 2006. No argument there, and I'm not about to defend the lilly-livered Dems for letting Republicans get their way all the time. But the deregulation largely responsible happened in 2004, when Republicans were fully in charge, when the SEC removed the debt-to-capital ratio cap for five firms: Goldman, Merrill, Lehman, Bear Stearns, and Morgan Stanley. Three of those should be familiar to anyone following this meltdown. I blame Republicans because it is Republican ideology and platform at work here. These are their laws. The other important deregulation was of the financial system in 1999, also pushed by Republicans. Again, Dems, this time Clinton, laid down, but make no mistake - these are Republican laws, Republican ideologies. These are changes Republicans wanted.
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:52 am |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am
Posts: 40611
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 *slow clap*
Ladies and gentlemen, one more time for the Republican Party! WOOHOO!
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:24 am |
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The Mr Pink
What would Jesus *not* do?
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:55 am
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Location: Going Up the Down Escalator
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 Something tells me had this happened under a Democratic presidency we wouldn't be hearing about bailouts but about impeachment and indictments. Bush has to ask for the money to hide the fact that his cronies are stealing it. Who says Republicans aren't in favor of socialism  Oh, and we can lay this at the Republicans feet. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-moore ... 27340.html
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:56 am |
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Bodrul
All Star Poster
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:21 am
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 so Bush is going to give between $700 billion & $1 trillion of cash to Wall Street to "buy" their bad debts - ie their near-worthless loans. . . !!!!!
Of course the stock markets rallied. They've just been bailed out with cold, hard, cash. Whose cash? Taxpayers' cash.
Bush has just robbed ordinary American people.
European governments are likely to do the same. We will all pay in higher taxes its looking like.
So forgive me if I call a lying crook a lying crook. George W Bush is both a fucking war criminal and a lying crook.
In fact, though, you'd have to give him something for his consistency with the Bush family values. His grandfather, financier & banker Prescott Bush, was found guilty of Trading with the Enemy in 1944. Yes - an American banker still bankrolling the Nazi war machine in 1944. HAH
Treason and putting Wall Street first is a Bush family tradition.
How any of you can still support him is still beyond me.
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:18 am |
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Mannyisthebest
Forum General
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 3:53 pm
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 imo its pointless to look at the past.
The problem there is a huge mess to banks being greedy and a bunch of idiots.
The reason why they have to be bailed out, the Economy would slide so heavily we would enter the Great Depression.
After you fix the problem then it is priority number 1 that such a thing never happens again.
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:32 am |
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Caius
A very honest-hearted fellow
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:02 pm
Posts: 4767
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 Sebatian Mallaby from a Washington Post Op-ed has some solid arguments against the loan buyout. Quote: In the 1980s, the government did not need a strategy to decide which bad loans to take over; it dealt with anything that fell into its lap as a result of a thrift bankruptcy. But under the current proposal, the government would go out and shop for bad loans. These come in all shapes and sizes, so the government would have to judge what type of loans it wants. They are illiquid, so it's hard to know how to value them. Bad loans are weighing down the financial system precisely because private-sector experts can't determine their worth. The government would have no better handle on the problem.
In practice this means the government would make subjective choices about which bad loans to buy, and it would pay more than fair value. Billions in taxpayer money would be transferred to the shareholders and creditors of banks, and the banks from which the government bought most loans would be subsidized more than their rivals. If the government bought the most from the sickest institutions, it would be slowing the healthy process in which strong players buy up the weak, delaying an eventual recovery. The haggling over which banks got to unload the most would drag on for months. So the hope that this "systematic" plan can be a near-term substitute for ad hoc AIG-style bailouts is illusory.
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:44 am |
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A. G.
Draughty
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:23 am
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 I bet McCain runs a populist campaign against the bailout and tries to tie Obama to a Washington that wants to "take your money and give it away to foreign corporations and greedy wall street types".
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:47 am |
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Timayd
The 5th B-Sharp
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:48 am
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 It's not just the money that gets me, it's the absolute power given to the sec. of treasury.
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:04 pm |
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Beeblebrox
All Star Poster
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 Timayd wrote: It's not just the money that gets me, it's the absolute power given to the sec. of treasury. That's one of the big problems. The bill actually wants no accountability or oversight (big surprise coming from the Bush administration). Btw, here's Republican Leader John Boehner arguing AGAINST a bill that helps out "main street" (ordinary people) and wants all the help to go to Wall Street: DODD: I think there’s going to be a strong interest to deal with the Main Street aspects of this.
BOEHNER: But we’ve already dealt with that, when we passed the housing bill last summer. I didn’t vote for it because of the $300 billion bailout for scam artists, and speculators, and others around the housing industry. But there are a lot of tools in there to help the Federal Housing Administration deal with the foreclosures problems that’s out there. We need to rise above partisan politics…and deal with this as adults.
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:56 pm |
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Beeblebrox
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 Dems want to make sure the money helps families. Reps want to make sure the money helps CEOs.
The measure that the administration sent up to Congress on Saturday is a mere three pages in length. While Paulson emphasized the need for speed, Democrats said Sunday that they could do it quickly while also adding necessary protections for taxpayers and help for people facing the threat of mortgage foreclosures.
Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., appearing on ABC's "This Week," said if all of this help was being directed to Wall Street there was also a need to provide help for people on Main Street.
But Paulson, also appearing on ABC, said, "We need this to be clean and to be quick."
Paulson resisted suggestions being made by Democrats that the program be changed to include further relief for homeowners facing mortgage foreclosures and to include an additional $50 billion stimulus effort. Some Democrats have also suggested capping compensation of executives at firms who get the bailout help.
Paulson said he was concerned that debate over adding all of those proposals would slow passage of the bill, delaying the rescue effort that is so urgently needed to get financial markets moving again.
"The biggest help we can give the American people right now is to stabilize the financial system," Paulson said.
But Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said that he believed there would be changes to Paulson's plan and that agreement could still be reached quickly.
Schumer said that he was pushing to get a provision where the government would receive stock warrants in return for the bailout relief and for creation of a government oversight board to supervise the huge operation, which under Paulson's plan would be run out of the Treasury Department. He said Paulson seemed receptive to changes when he had discussed his ideas with him.
"I have told him ... we need changes related to housing, we need to put the taxpayer first ahead of bondholders, shareholders," Schumer said on "Fox News Sunday."
However, Republican lawmakers said that the Democratic efforts risks slowing down a measure that was urgently needed.
"This would be the most serious financial crisis that the world has ever dealt with. It is not a time to be playing games," said House Republican Leader John Boehner.
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:12 pm |
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Beeblebrox
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 George Will today: "I suppose the McCain campaign's hope is that when there's a big crisis, people will go for age and experience. The question is, who in this crisis looked more presidential, calm and unflustered? It wasn't John McCain who, as usual, substituting vehemence for coherence, said 'let's fire somebody.' And picked one of the most experienced and conservative people in the administration, Chris Cox, and for no apparent reason... It was un-presidential behavior by a presidential candidate.
Populism is pandering and pandering is the opposite of leadership. John McCain showed his personality this week, and made some of us fearful."
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:19 pm |
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Caius
A very honest-hearted fellow
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:02 pm
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 Maybe the Supreme Court can strike down this (inevitable) behemoth under the, not used in 70 years, non-delegation doctrine.
Here's the rule (at least how I perceive it):
Rule:
i) Congress must give the Executive agency an “intelligible principle,†not just make a broad law and give the Executive discretion to make the laws itself.
ii) Congress can make a law with minimum standards and have the agency fill the gap.
$700b with little oversight sounds ripe for this doctrine to come back. I think Justice Thomas might be on board. However, I think standing could be a problem since you can't sue as a taxpayer.
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| Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:13 pm |
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Rev
Romosexual!
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 has congress approved it yet?
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| Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:43 pm |
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A. G.
Draughty
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:23 am
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 No, I doubt they will for several more days. They can't just rush and sign something without examining what it is they are signing first.
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| Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:34 pm |
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Chippy
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 Dems are just as much to blame.
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| Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:59 pm |
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Beeblebrox
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 Archie Gates wrote: No, I doubt they will for several more days. They can't just rush and sign something without examining what it is they are signing first. Ideally. One would hope they'd learned a lesson by now about rushing into legislation requested by Bush.
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| Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:31 pm |
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Mr. Reynolds
Confessing on a Dance Floor
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 I miss Bill Clinton! He just explained the whole damn crisis so well even I understand. Let's change the constitution and re-elect Bill Clinton!!
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| Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:02 am |
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Beeblebrox
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 Sam wrote: I miss Bill Clinton! He just explained the whole damn crisis so well even I understand. Let's change the constitution and re-elect Bill Clinton!! Bill Clinton's acquiescence to Republicans on deregulation of the financial industry is one of the reasons we're in this mess.
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| Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:03 am |
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Mannyisthebest
Forum General
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 Still Clinton could not expect things to go so far and that the govt would not step in...
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| Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:39 am |
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Krem
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 Beeblebrox wrote: Sam wrote: I miss Bill Clinton! He just explained the whole damn crisis so well even I understand. Let's change the constitution and re-elect Bill Clinton!! Bill Clinton's acquiescence to Republicans on deregulation of the financial industry is one of the reasons we're in this mess. Will you stop with this nonsense already? Clinton's deregulation is one of the reasons we're not in a bigger mess. Look at all the investment banks that have failed? Notice something about them? None of them had commercial operations. Now look at the ones still standing: BoA, Citi, JP Morgan - all of them have both commercial operations and underwriting activities. Having the large commercial base to lean on is helping these banks to avoid being dragged down by the bad debt. Yesterday both Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs applied to change their status to bank holding companies, so that they can have commercial operations too.
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| Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:29 am |
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Mannyisthebest
Forum General
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Re: Bush requests $700,000,000,000 You cannot blame deregulation entirely...
Don't try to use this to beat the drum of "the end of capitalism"
Some of the most successful companies now are commercial.
Canada's has become much more stable fiscally due to deregulation mostly.
Important difference the govt still has some control.
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| Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:56 pm |
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