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 Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel 
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Draughty

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Post Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
Gazprom, Russia’s gas monopoly, on Tuesday predicted oil prices would reach $250 a barrel in 2009.

The striking prediction came as the International Energy Agency, the developed world’s energy watchdog, warned that record high prices were needed to choke off demand in order to balance the oil market.

It is the IEA’s most candid admission to date that oil supply is struggling to catch up with Asian demand, and follows the sharp rise in prices last week, which saw crude jump more than $16.24 in less than 36 hours to a record $139.12.

Gazprom’s prediction came at a strategy presentation in Deauville, where Alexei Miller, chief executive, said: “Today we are witnessing a very great change for hydrocarbons. The level is very high and we think it [the price of oil] will reach $250 a barrel.” A company spokesman specified that Gazprom believed that level would be hit in 2009.

More here

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What do you guys see the global economic effects being if that happens?


Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:54 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
Well my commuter train that I take at noon to University will be even more full.

Who would have thought 5 years ago people would take commuter trains downtown outside of Rush Hour. It is now a growing trend as there use to be hardly any people on it. Now it is atleast 1/3 full and more.

The cost of going to Downtown is not only about parking but it now means around 10-15 dollars for gas as well.

Whats wrong with paying $5-10 both ways..,

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Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:56 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
We'd probably see rampant inflation. Oil is used to make lots of everyday items. Hopefully Gazprom was just engaged in wishful thinking.


Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:50 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
Archie Gates wrote:
We'd probably see rampant inflation. Oil is used to make lots of everyday items. Hopefully Gazprom was just engaged in wishful thinking.


But sometimes I wonder if these outlandish statements really are just made to drive up the cost more. I mean look at the effect when an "analyst" says "Ohh prices are going to be uhhh $150 at the end of the year" and then BAM! the price jumps $5-$10 overnight. I mean...these people know what they are doing.

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Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:32 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
Archie's argument though still, is fundamentally correct. Having worked for a logistics company and still involved with logistics as part of my target market, fuel, is a direct cost associated with the production of every single commodity. What makes it worse is that its not just the price of the final product that goes up, its the cost of every piece of material that increases along the entire supply chain.

Item A makes Item B, makes Item C makes Item D
Item E makes Item F makes item D
Item G makes Item B
Item H makes item I makes Item D

The cost of transportation of all the items except Item D first increases the cost of the raw material or equipment used in making Item D which drives up its cost. Then they actual distribution of that item does so as well.

I've never been a big fan of people who say "oh increase the cost more. I don't mind. It'll force people to drive less". It sounds like ignorant talk. Sure, even I don't mind paying an extra 60% mroe on the direct fuel that i need to spend my money on. But that 60% increase is the least of my worries.

Sure we can all take the Europe route and accept paying 2 dollars a liter but our infrastructure is not set up the way theirs is. This isn't an excuse, its just a plain fact. You can't just introduce one similarity between the 2 systems to fix one issue and then sit back and wonder why everything else is fucking up.


Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:38 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
Predictions are cheap, and their value is falling fast...


Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:08 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
I'm pretty sure within the next decade US will see go through a really bad period of economic depression that will be worse than anything since the Great Depression, although not quite as bad as then. Although most of it will have to do with the dollar crashing moreso than the absolute rise of oil prices, internationally speaking.


Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:25 am
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
Bradley Witherberry wrote:
Predictions are cheap.


Rupert Murdoch in February 2003: ""The greatest thing to come of [the invasion of Iraq] to the world economy, if you could put it that way, would be $20 a barrel for oil."


Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:40 am
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
The best point has been made by Archie. Look around your room, and count how many things weren't made with oil, directly or indirectly.

alex young wrote:
I'm pretty sure within the next decade US will see go through a really bad period of economic depression that will be worse than anything since the Great Depression, although not quite as bad as then. Although most of it will have to do with the dollar crashing moreso than the absolute rise of oil prices, internationally speaking.


Why just the US?

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Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:36 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
Sun Ra wrote:
The best point has been made by Archie. Look around your room, and count how many things weren't made with oil, directly or indirectly.

alex young wrote:
I'm pretty sure within the next decade US will see go through a really bad period of economic depression that will be worse than anything since the Great Depression, although not quite as bad as then. Although most of it will have to do with the dollar crashing moreso than the absolute rise of oil prices, internationally speaking.


Why just the US?


Quote:
most of it will have to do with the dollar crashing


I can see that happening, since the Euro is starting to take off.

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Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:24 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
True, but we aren't the only oil-based country.

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Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:57 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
Predictions are cheap, that's right. Put your money where your mouth is and buy oil futures (and EUR futures, for those who think that the dollar will crash and burn).

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Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:17 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
Krem wrote:
Predictions are cheap, that's right. Put your money where your mouth is and buy oil futures (and EUR futures, for those who think that the dollar will crash and burn).


That would be what we call a self-fulfilling prophecy. You predict higher prices, so you tell everyone to buy oil futures, thereby driving the price of oil up.

That's largely why prices are where they are right now. It has less to do with supply than it does speculation.


Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:08 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
Beeblebrox wrote:
Krem wrote:
Predictions are cheap, that's right. Put your money where your mouth is and buy oil futures (and EUR futures, for those who think that the dollar will crash and burn).


That would be what we call a self-fulfilling prophecy. You predict higher prices, so you tell everyone to buy oil futures, thereby driving the price of oil up.

That's largely why prices are where they are right now. It has less to do with supply than it does speculation.

I wasn't talking about Gazprom - they are a producer of oil, so obviously it's in their best interest for the prices to keep going up (as long as there are buyers, that is). I was talking about prognosticators in this thread. Personally, I don't make these kinds of predictions, because I am not an expert on oil. As far as I am concerned, the current price is the best reflection of the long-term market, given what we know now, and Gazprom either knows something that traders don't or is just using wishful thinking.

I do agree that the price is mostly driven higher by speculation. The bubble will eventually burst, it's just that it's hard to say when and how.

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Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:37 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
I think by 2010 latest we will see a major global depression which we all know is coming.
The economy is undoubtably in recession right now and its only a matter of time before the meltdown arrives. I just wish the world would start taking alternative power and fuels more seriously.

The economy of oil, however, is just too great to let other fuels take over. Man would rather profit off of the last dwindles of oil greatly than give another fuel a shot and lose trillions to another group of men.

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Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:31 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
Looking back on this thread, it is sorta funny. Anyway, here's the NYT's on the future of oil.

Quote:
Oil production has begun falling at all of the major Western oil companies, and they are finding it harder than ever to find new prospects even though they are awash in profits and eager to expand.

Part of the reason is political. From the Caspian Sea to South America, Western oil companies are being squeezed out of resource-rich provinces. They are being forced to renegotiate contracts on less-favorable terms and are fighting losing battles with assertive state-owned oil companies.

....

As late as the 1970s, Western corporations controlled well over half of the world’s oil production. These companies — Exxon Mobil, BP, Royal Dutch Shell, Chevron, ConocoPhillips, Total of France and Eni of Italy — now produce just 13 percent.

Today’s 10 largest holders of petroleum reserves are state-owned companies, like Russia’s Gazprom and Iran’s national oil company.

Sluggish supplies have prompted a cottage industry of doomsday predictions that the world’s oil production has reached a peak. But many energy experts say these “peak oil” theories are misplaced. They say the world is not running out of oil — rather, the companies that know the most about how to produce oil are running out of places to drill.

“There is still a lot of oil to develop out there, which is why we don’t call this geological peak oil, especially in places like Venezuela, Russia, Iran and Iraq,” said Arjun Murti, an energy analyst at Goldman Sachs. “What we have now is geopolitical peak oil.”

Western companies are far better than most national oil companies at finding and extracting petroleum, experts say. They have developed advanced exploration technologies and can muster significant financing to develop new fields. Many of the world’s exporting states, however, have spurned their expertise.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/19/business/19oil.html?_r=1&oref=slogin


Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:53 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
There are huge amounts of unconventional oil as well, such as Alberta's oil sands, second onto to Saudi Arabia in reserves quantity.

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Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:34 am
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
Anita Hussein Briem wrote:
There are huge amounts of unconventional oil as well, such as Alberta's oil sands, second onto to Saudi Arabia in reserves quantity.

The U.S. has the largest deposits of oil shale in the world in the Rocky Mountains - more than all the other nations put together and a lot more than all the conventional oil reserves around the world.

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Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:13 am
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
Krem wrote:
Anita Hussein Briem wrote:
There are huge amounts of unconventional oil as well, such as Alberta's oil sands, second onto to Saudi Arabia in reserves quantity.

The U.S. has the largest deposits of oil shale in the world in the Rocky Mountains - more than all the other nations put together and a lot more than all the conventional oil reserves around the world.

Really, American shale deposits are even larger than Canadian sand deposits? I never knew that, thanks. :shades:

Are operations to recover shale oil already underway? It's bound to be economical at $115 a barrel.

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Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:08 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale

Quote:
A 2005 estimate set the total world resources of oil shale at 411 gigatons — enough to yield 2.8 to 3.3 trillion barrels (520 km3) of shale oil.[2][3][4][5] This exceeds the world's proven conventional oil reserves, estimated at 1.317 trillion barrels (209.4×109 m3), as of 1 January 2007.[22] The largest deposits in the world occur in the United States in the Green River basin, which covers portions of Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming; about 70% of this resource is located on federally owned or managed land.[23] Deposits in the United States constitute 62% of world resources; together, the United States, Russia and Brazil account for 86% of the world's resources in terms of shale oil content.[20] These figures are considered tentative, as several deposits have not yet been explored or analyzed.[6][2] Professor Alan R. Carroll of University of Wisconsin-Madison estimates that Upper Permian lacustrine oil shale deposits of northwest China, absent from previous global oil shale assessments, are comparable to the Green River Formation.[24]


To recap - there is 2.5 times more known oil shale reserves than known oil reserves. 62% of known oil shale reserves are in the U.S. The same article estimates that oil shale reduction becomes economical at $70-95/barrel and go down to as little as $30-40/barrel.

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Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:34 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
Oil is up 6 dollars a barrel already. It seems the media swings from one extreme to another, extrapolating doom and gloom when it rises then jumping to everything's going to be fine when it falls.

I don't think we're going to run out of oil anytime soon but the price will rise for a number of factors. One of the main reasons it went down recently was that US drivers cut back on miles at a record level in recent months and that offset a strong rise in demand from the third world. But there's a limit to how much can be cut back and demand overseas will keep rising.

Yes they could drill here or there extra but in many cases they won't because they make more pure profit off of just exploiting existing wells in which the major expenses have already been paid.


Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:03 pm
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Post Re: Gazprom predicts 2009 oil price: $250 a barrel
Given an efficient market, "peak oil" is quite a ways away. That efficient market assumes unfettered access to new oil sources, such as the shale Krem references -- whether that should be allowed, and to what degree, may be the next generation's moral battle, not offshore drilling.

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Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:37 pm
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