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EU solidarity over anti-Koran film
https://www.worldofkj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=39438
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Author:  Shad [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

Quote:
Holland's prime minister said he had won broad EU solidarity from the bloc's leaders in case the expected release of an anti-Koran film by a maverick Dutch politician leads to violence.

The Dutch politician, Freedom Party leader Geert Wilders, has said he plans to air the film this month.

Dutch and other European officials fear the film could spark violent protests in Muslim countries similar to those held two years ago after the publication in the Danish press of cartoons deemed offensive by Muslims.

Holland has been warned by Islamic figures and countries, including Iran, that releasing the film would lead to violence there.

Dutch prime minister Jan Peter Balkenende said the other EU countries supported the view that it cannot silence Mr Wilders due to the constitutional right to freedom of expression.

"I said that even if we fundamentally disagree with the vision (of Wilders), that can never justify taking violent actions," Mr Balkenende said, adding he sensed "a broad agreement to act together" in staving off violent actions.

Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen said the Dutch could expect full backing by fellow EU member states.


According to what I've heard, Geert Wilders wants to show in the film how the Koran and Islam are incompatible with Western society and democracy in general. He then supposedly ends the film by symbolically burning the Koran.

I'm sure there will be terrible riots everywhere in the muslim world if this film actually gets shown.

Author:  Box [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

Chalk that down as yet one more reason why the EU is a confederacy of dunces.

Author:  Caius [ Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

box-2004 wrote:
Chalk that down as yet one more reason why the EU is a confederacy of dunces.

Please elaborate.

Author:  Groucho [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

Let's see...

The film says that the Koran preaches anti-democracy and anti-freedom.

So some people want to censor the film, which is, of course anti-democratic and anti-freedom.

Got it.

Author:  Tyler [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

Bitch, bitch, bitch.

Even the Christians aren't that bad.

Author:  Anita Hussein Briem [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

Show the film. Freedom can only be defeated by fear.

Author:  Groucho [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

Angela Merkel wrote:
Freedom can only be defeated by fear.


I think that's the slogan on GWB's desk plaque, isn't it?

Author:  Anita Hussein Briem [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

Groucho wrote:
Angela Merkel wrote:
Freedom can only be defeated by fear.


I think that's the slogan on GWB's desk plaque, isn't it?

How fitting. GWB is terrorism's biggest tool.

Author:  bABA [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

meh

while i do not subscribe to the fact that Quranic teachings are not compatible with western culture (not that i see why they need to be) or freedom, from the sounds of it, the content of the film does not bother me much but i do get extremely disturbed by things like when people mention the burning of the holy book, which in my opinion, ... i mean shit like that just isn't classy to begin with. i take exception to people burning flags and books or anything complete communities feel are holy cause while you may argue you are trying to make a statement, really, more than anything, to me, it serves no other purpose but to spite and challenge people to defend themselves. hell i consider it irresponsible.

Author:  Groucho [ Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

It's absolutely disrespectful, unclassy, and provoking.

But hey, so is South Park.

Author:  Bodrul [ Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

the guy actually burns it at the end? what a fucking idiot, he is going to die very soon i expect.

Author:  bABA [ Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

Groucho wrote:
It's absolutely disrespectful, unclassy, and provoking.

But hey, so is South Park.


I do think that on quite a few occasions, south park takes things too far but most times, a lot of what south park does ends up sending a message across that doesn't feel unneeded. i even remember the whole picture of the prophet episode that south park did that may be offensive but clearly not uncassy or tasteless at all.

Author:  Groucho [ Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

bABA wrote:
Groucho wrote:
It's absolutely disrespectful, unclassy, and provoking.

But hey, so is South Park.


I do think that on quite a few occasions, south park takes things too far but most times, a lot of what south park does ends up sending a message across that doesn't feel unneeded. i even remember the whole picture of the prophet episode that south park did that may be offensive but clearly not uncassy or tasteless at all.



I know... my point was that we should protect free speech, even speech that is "disrespectful, unclassy, and provoking." Maybe even especially speech that is disrespectful, unclassy, and provoking.

Author:  Anita Hussein Briem [ Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

In every country, one is free to agree. Freedom is about the freedom to disagree.

Author:  bABA [ Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

Groucho wrote:
bABA wrote:
Groucho wrote:
It's absolutely disrespectful, unclassy, and provoking.

But hey, so is South Park.


I do think that on quite a few occasions, south park takes things too far but most times, a lot of what south park does ends up sending a message across that doesn't feel unneeded. i even remember the whole picture of the prophet episode that south park did that may be offensive but clearly not uncassy or tasteless at all.



I know... my point was that we should protect free speech, even speech that is "disrespectful, unclassy, and provoking." Maybe even especially speech that is disrespectful, unclassy, and provoking.


never made a claim for or against that. merely pointing out that its unclassy and tasteless. however, i do like to point out that free speech or not, when people wish to abuse it, and i do believe that from the sounds of it (haven't seen it yet ofcourse), the burning of the Quran seems to be an unnessary attack that obviously will piss off people, some very violent people .. when you clearly know what it would do, i do think that the behavior is irresponsible on their part

Author:  Cotton [ Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

^ Hopefully people will take into account that the documentary is representing the viewpoints of a seemingly bigoted, fringe party and not the EU.

Author:  Shad [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

Cotton wrote:
^ Hopefully people will take into account that the documentary is representing the viewpoints of a seemingly bigoted, fringe party and not the EU.


He's not some nobody though, he's a well known politician who got elected to the Dutch parliament as the leader of the fifth largest party. A party that holds nine seats. That obviously means that there are a number of people who agree with him.

Muslim dislike has also been rising considerably in Europe as of late. Some of the European countries have had vast amounts of immigrants and political refugees from the Middle-East and for some reason the majority of them haven't adapted to the societies of their new countries very well. If you go to Paris or Amsterdam for example, in the last decade or so there have risen up ghettos of muslims who collect welfare benefits, don't speak the country's language and are pretty much totally isolated from society at large. This is in stark contrast to the muslim immigration to North-America which has been much, much more smooth. In many countries in Europe, nationalistic parties have been gaining a lot of ground due to this new development.

I'm sure that in the coming years we'll see more and more confrontations between muslims in Europe and the native populace. The 2005 and 2007 riots in France weren't just some isolated incident.

Author:  bABA [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

Shad wrote:
Cotton wrote:
^ Hopefully people will take into account that the documentary is representing the viewpoints of a seemingly bigoted, fringe party and not the EU.


He's not some nobody though, he's a well known politician who got elected to the Dutch parliament as the leader of the fifth largest party. A party that holds nine seats. That obviously means that there are a number of people who agree with him.

Muslim dislike has also been rising considerably in Europe as of late. Some of the European countries have had vast amounts of immigrants and political refugees from the Middle-East and for some reason the majority of them haven't adapted to the societies of their new countries very well. If you go to Paris or Amsterdam for example, in the last decade or so there have risen up ghettos of muslims who collect welfare benefits, don't speak the country's language and are pretty much totally isolated from society at large. This is in stark contrast to the muslim immigration to North-America which has been much, much more smooth. In many countries in Europe, nationalistic parties have been gaining a lot of ground due to this new development.

I'm sure that in the coming years we'll see more and more confrontations between muslims in Europe and the native populace. The 2005 and 2007 riots in France weren't just some isolated incident.


:)

Thank God you're not in the US. What you just said would have been replied back with "OMG! You think Muslims are predisposed to collect welfare and live off the govt and are unable to speak one's language!!

yea ... it bothers me. people when moving to a new location, either to seek refuge or otherwise should make an effort to integrate as oppose to going with the expectations with getting accomodated. and if you do not want to integrate, do not complain about unequal treatment. i remember hearing about a case here in canada where they were discussing why hospitals do not employ translators to accomodate immigrants that never learnt any official language of the country. i find that preposterous.

Author:  El Maskado [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

bABA wrote:
Groucho wrote:
It's absolutely disrespectful, unclassy, and provoking.

But hey, so is South Park.


I do think that on quite a few occasions, south park takes things too far but most times, a lot of what south park does ends up sending a message across that doesn't feel unneeded. i even remember the whole picture of the prophet episode that south park did that may be offensive but clearly not uncassy or tasteless at all.

South Park does make a few valid points on issues that I dont necessarly agree with sort of Penn and Tellers:Bullshit. Add to the fact that South Park is the funniest cartoon on the air today

Author:  Cotton [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

Shad wrote:
Cotton wrote:
^ Hopefully people will take into account that the documentary is representing the viewpoints of a seemingly bigoted, fringe party and not the EU.


He's not some nobody though, he's a well known politician who got elected to the Dutch parliament as the leader of the fifth largest party. A party that holds nine seats. That obviously means that there are a number of people who agree with him.


Only about 5.8% of the electorate according to the last election. :)

I'm aware of the attitude you speak of in Europe, but I think it's pretty transparent that this politician is just trying to rile up support for his own cause. All I'm saying is that I hope people won't blow it out of proportion.

Author:  Mannyisthebest [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

you know freedom of speech is good, but if you go in a Jewish neighborhood and say the holocaust never happened, your being just stupid...

Do you have the right sure you do??

Is it a good idea and will it just lead to more trouble and suffering in the world? Likely...

Criticizing the Koran is one thing, but to burn it is not a freedom of speech. Its a sacra religious act and your literally disrespecting the deepest beliefs of hundreds of million with no proper reasoning behind it...

So sure discussing the teachings of the Koran is fair game, but if your burning it your just a hateful bigot like the fundamentalist are to the west.
So, yes I do compare some of these rather anti-Muslim groups to fundamentalist Islamic groups. They are quite similar.

Author:  Shad [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

The film has been released. If anyone wants to see it, here it is:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8312745410

Author:  nghtvsn [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

Shad wrote:
The film has been released. If anyone wants to see it, here it is:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8312745410


Saw it yesterday. It was nothing special. It takes a few quotes and pairs them up with visual images of terrorist action to illustrate them. It wasn't offensive or that hard hitting to me either.

Author:  DKev [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

Out of pure curiosity I decided to watch the movie and was relieved that it showed absolutely nothing new. All the director did was misquote the Quran completely, show some radical idiots condemning the Jews, and show images and clips of the "havoc Muslims have caused" recently. It's nothing new and will be forgotten rather quickly.

Author:  Beeblebrox [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: EU solidarity over anti-Koran film

Groucho wrote:
Angela Merkel wrote:
Freedom can only be defeated by fear.


I think that's the slogan on GWB's desk plaque, isn't it?


I'm listening to the EU's sensible and level-headed reaction, defending freedom despite the very real possibility of violence, and I just marvel at how much it emphasizes the over-reaction and anti-Constitutional actions of Bush and his idiotic wet-their-pants-out-of-fear supporters.

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