Groucho wrote:
He might be doing far better, actually.
It's shocking, because I think you're completely serious.
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| If Obama wasn't black ... https://www.worldofkj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=39340 |
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| Author: | Eagle [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | If Obama wasn't black ... |
Would he still be in the position he is? |
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| Author: | Caius [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
no |
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| Author: | Groucho [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
He might be doing far better, actually. |
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| Author: | Caius [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
Groucho wrote: He might be doing far better, actually. We'd simply be calling him John Edwards...and look at how far that got John Edwards. |
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| Author: | Eagle [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
Groucho wrote: He might be doing far better, actually. It's shocking, because I think you're completely serious. |
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| Author: | Chippy [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
He would have the hispanic vote... |
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| Author: | Snrub [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
Eagle wrote: Groucho wrote: He might be doing far better, actually. It's shocking, because I think you're completely serious. You must be joking, Eagle. Please be joking. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
Munk·E wrote: He would have the hispanic vote... No he wouldn't. I don't know why so many people find it so hard to believe that a vote for Clinton actually means a vote for Clinton, not against Obama. Except perhaps ignorance. |
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| Author: | Eagle [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
Snrub wrote: Eagle wrote: Groucho wrote: He might be doing far better, actually. It's shocking, because I think you're completely serious. You must be joking, Eagle. Please be joking. Not at all. What is his campaign based on? Change? He has no experience, he has no voting record, he is running on change. Ask Edwards how that campaign worked for him. Now I'm NOT saying that: he hasn't run a good campaign, that he wouldn't be a good president, or that he isn't qualified. I just think his message hits home much more simply because of his race. I think denying it is, well, silly. |
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| Author: | El Maskado [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
If Hillary wasnt married to a former president, will she be in this position? |
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| Author: | Groucho [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
Eagle wrote: Groucho wrote: He might be doing far better, actually. It's shocking, because I think you're completely serious. I am. Being black certainly didn't help Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. And being an intelligent man with great oratory skills certainly helped Robert Kennedy, who would have won but for the assassination. Obama graduated near the top of his class of Harvard Law School, dedicated his life to public service, and, in my opinion, has an impressive background, a calm demeanor necessary in a good leader, and judgment. And all of that has absolutely nothing to do with his race. I think if he were white with all of those same skills, he might be doing even better, because of people who, as we can see here, only look at the color of his skin. |
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| Author: | Timayd [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
If Obama was white and related to a president he would be RFK. There I said it. |
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| Author: | xiayun [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
First, you can't take out one thing that defines a person and assume everything else to be the same; if Obama weren't black, he would probably have had a quite different experience in life and not have the same perspective or view or interests. Being black and being a child of an interracial family, along with all the other things he experienced in life, are what made Obama Obama. Still, even hypothetically, if there had been someone with the exact background and pursued the exact same course for his life up to this point, and he happened to be white, he would still do much better than Edwards, because he still has better charisma, a much more positive tone, and could connect with young people better. The 18-29 isn't going for him because of his race, but because he speaks their language, and they will be behind him passionately regardless. If he were white, he would at least be a Howard Dean without the scream and with better oratory skills. |
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| Author: | Snrub [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
Eagle wrote: Not at all. What is his campaign based on? Change? He has no experience, he has no voting record, he is running on change. Ask Edwards how that campaign worked for him. Now I'm NOT saying that: he hasn't run a good campaign, that he wouldn't be a good president, or that he isn't qualified. I just think his message hits home much more simply because of his race. I think denying it is, well, silly. Perhaps to you it seems that way. And it saddens me to find out that's the case. |
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| Author: | Eagle [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
Roid wrote: If Hillary wasnt married to a former president, will she be in this position? Of course not! You could almost make the argument that if Bill hadn't had the Monica scandal, she wouldn't be where she is. |
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| Author: | El Maskado [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
not to mention being from a minority race could bring something different in terms of foreign policy and talks with other country leaders. |
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| Author: | El Maskado [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
Eagle wrote: Roid wrote: If Hillary wasnt married to a former president, will she be in this position? Of course not! You could almost make the argument that if Bill hadn't had the Monica scandal, she wouldn't be where she is. nope but I made my mind up as soon as Senator Hillary Clinton sided with so many of the issues that Bush wanted to pass and latched to him like a little kid |
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| Author: | Eagle [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
Snrub wrote: Eagle wrote: Not at all. What is his campaign based on? Change? He has no experience, he has no voting record, he is running on change. Ask Edwards how that campaign worked for him. Now I'm NOT saying that: he hasn't run a good campaign, that he wouldn't be a good president, or that he isn't qualified. I just think his message hits home much more simply because of his race. I think denying it is, well, silly. Perhaps to you it seems that way. And it saddens me to find out that's the case. It's a sad world we live in, but that doesn't mean it's not valid reasoning. Everything Xiayun said is spot on, but look, you can say whatever you want about his charisma, urban areas aren't voting for him 85-15 because of his charisma. |
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| Author: | Snrub [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
Frankly, I think Obama's in the position he's in right now in [i]spite[i] of his race. He's articulate, he's idealistic, he's realistic, he's intelligent, he's politically savvy but honest, he's anti-old politics... frankly he's a wet dream of a presidential candidate. And it's questions like the ones posed in this thread that show why he's got very little chance of being elected. |
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| Author: | Groucho [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
xiayun wrote: First, you can't take out one thing that defines a person and assume everything else to be the same; if Obama weren't black, he would probably have had a quite different experience in life and not have the same perspective or view or interests. Being black and being a child of an interracial family, along with all the other things he experienced in life, are what made Obama Obama. A very good point, but the same can be said about anyone -- their race, parents, and background certainly shapes their views xiayun wrote: Still, even hypothetically, if there had been someone with the exact background and pursued the exact same course for his life up to this point, and he happened to be white, he would still do much better than Edwards, because he still has better charisma, a much more positive tone, and could connect with young people better. The 18-29 isn't going for him because of his race, but because he speaks their language, and they will be behind him passionately regardless. If he were white, he would at least be a Howard Dean without the scream and with better oratory skills. Right. |
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| Author: | Groucho [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
Eagle wrote: Everything Xiayun said is spot on, but look, you can say whatever you want about his charisma, urban areas aren't voting for him 85-15 because of his charisma. And women are voting for Hillary 75% too. And Italians voted for Guiliani, and so on. People vote for people like them. But Obama also won Maine and Iowa and Vermont and states that are 99% white, too, so it's not just that, is it? It's not as if the black vote has made the huge difference in this election. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
Eagle wrote: Snrub wrote: Eagle wrote: Not at all. What is his campaign based on? Change? He has no experience, he has no voting record, he is running on change. Ask Edwards how that campaign worked for him. Now I'm NOT saying that: he hasn't run a good campaign, that he wouldn't be a good president, or that he isn't qualified. I just think his message hits home much more simply because of his race. I think denying it is, well, silly. Perhaps to you it seems that way. And it saddens me to find out that's the case. It's a sad world we live in, but that doesn't mean it's not valid reasoning. Everything Xiayun said is spot on, but look, you can say whatever you want about his charisma, urban areas aren't voting for him 85-15 because of his charisma. The fact that this thread exists in itself, I think is pretty sad. The problem is you only see it one way. You seem to think there are people out there voting for him because he is black but somehow think that in our pretty little world there aren't just as many people out there voting against him for the same reason. That and you ignore that there ARE people out there who can think of a person in more terms than just their race... |
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| Author: | Snrub [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
Eagle wrote: Snrub wrote: Eagle wrote: Not at all. What is his campaign based on? Change? He has no experience, he has no voting record, he is running on change. Ask Edwards how that campaign worked for him. Now I'm NOT saying that: he hasn't run a good campaign, that he wouldn't be a good president, or that he isn't qualified. I just think his message hits home much more simply because of his race. I think denying it is, well, silly. Perhaps to you it seems that way. And it saddens me to find out that's the case. It's a sad world we live in, but that doesn't mean it's not valid reasoning. Everything Xiayun said is spot on, but look, you can say whatever you want about his charisma, urban areas aren't voting for him 85-15 because of his charisma. I'm going to go back and echo Groucho's initial post. If Obama, as he is right now, was a white man campaigning for president, he'd be a shoe-in for the presidency. By this point Clinton would've withdrawn after a massive loss on Super Tuesday, and McCain would be considered a guaranteed second place come general election. You're implying that people are cutting him slack because of his race, when, in fact, it's the opposite. Once again, as evidenced by this sort of thread. |
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| Author: | Eagle [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
Oh please, my question has nothing to do with his electability. Obama is a valid candidate, with valid ideas. As others have said, he is a very charismatic man, and someone who is willing to work with the other side to get things accomplished. Because of that, he will always connect and find support from people who agree with him simply based on policy. People like Mike V. But don't kid yourself. We live in a world where people will refuse to vote for him because of the color of his skin. Where people will attack and demean him because of his religion or race, and where people will do anything they can to make sure he doesn't become president. We also live in a world where people will vote for him simply because he is Black. You can't possibly look at turnout and voting tenancies among African-Americans this year and believe any differently. The Democratic party has become racially divided. Hispanics, who as a culture are generally the most racist toward African-Americans, are voting hard against him. Race is going to play a huge part in this election, more so than any past election. Yet, I prescribe to the theory that there are far more people that will vote FOR him based on his race than those who would vote AGAINST him based on his race. Thus I think you saying things like he has very little chance at being elected are just foolish. |
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| Author: | Corpse [ Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If Obama wasn't black ... |
You have to agree though, that most attacks or simply anything remotely negative said about Obama is seen as racist by many people. He does benefit from being black when it comes to this. Can't say the same about Clinton since she's been attacked for years. |
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