How big is the program now? 819b?

A good portion of it was used that way.

You mean that 2%? They said the bill was a spending bill, not a stimulus, and they based that on 2% of the spending? Yeah, that doesn't exactly make them look any smarter or more honest in their criticism.

And I add once again that these are the same douche bags who DOUBLED the national debt in 8 years and blew about a trillion in Iraq.

As Barney Frank says, I would be more impressed if you or any other Republican I know had complained this much about the spending and waste when your party was in power.

The bottom line is that the Republicans are being brainless knee-jerk obstructionists, not a principled opposition party. And as Hillary and then McCain learned, you take on Obama under those circumstances at your peril.

Um, over 50% of the bill is classified as government spending.

Yeah, no shit. That's the stimulus part of the stimulus package. The problem here is that Republicans are acting as if it's either spending or stimulus, when the stimulus IS the spending and vice versa. It's like saying that the Iraq funding was a spending bill and not an Iraq funding bill. It's both.

And more importantly, why are we addressing this as if the Republican party has ANY CREDIBILITY left on anything to do with government spending or the economy?

Food for thought: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/06/world ... japan.html

More food for thought:

You say stimulus, some say government spending. Considering there are many projects like the 1 billion for the Census, I would say those on the spending side are more on point. Either way, it's a matter of perception.

Sure, you can certainly argue that spending on these types of projects will create jobs. They will. You can argue that they will stimulate the economy. They will. The question is how much, and are they the best way to stimulate the economy. This is where many say no, and maybe rightfully so.

The argument is that many of the billions in spending projects are simply government social projects, government spending, and not designed in any way to stimulate the economy. I actually think both articles above are on point. The key here is that America has SERIOUS infastructure problems, we NEED a 2 trillion investment into it, and dumping more of the stimulus into that area stimulates the economy the same as many of the projects in the bill, but arguably fills one of the biggest needs facing our nation at the same time. It's not building holes only to fill them in, and that's an important distinction to make. I don't think you can go wrong with education spending either however, and I was sad to see some of that get chopped. Why Republicans targeted that as wasteful I'm not entierly sure.

No, it's a matter of semantics and political theater.



Those saying "no" are the same knuckleheads in your party who spent us into oblivion with fuck all to show for it. I ask you again for the seventeenth time, what gives your party ANY CREDIBILITY about spending, waste, or stimulus given their track record of the last 8 years? Why are you agreeing with them?

These people put $12 billion in cash on an airplane and sent it into a war zone and were shocked, shocked that it went missing. And we're supposed to believe that these same people give a shit about $1 billion for the census?



Because it doesn't benefit the rich, which aside from bashing gays and banning abortion, is the only consistent thing your party cares about. And if that sounds like hyperbole, name ONE other thing that they believe in that's consistent no matter who is president or controls Congress. It sure as shit ain't small government.

You're obviously right, the Republican party is the wrong to Democrats right. Not a single valid thought, not one redeeming quality, and certainly no right to attempt to do their job.

The plan to spend on infastructure is a very double edged sword. To say it will not stimulate the US economy is nonsense, of course it will the only problem is if it becomes the central crux to a recovery it will be akin to a building fueled boom. This situation has happened in Ireland and the result has been utterly disastrous due to to this downturn. The US economy was not as dependent on the Building industry in the last positive cycle so this recession is not a complete disaster.

My knowledge of this stimulus plan is not great but the balancing act it requires isn't going to be easy.

They are wrong, whether the Dems are right or not. At least the Dems are trying to lead, with some valid and not so valid ideas.

Republicans have exactly one economic thought, and that's cutting taxes. When times are great, they want to cut taxes. When times are tough, they want to cut taxes. During peace time, they want to cut taxes. During war, they want to cut taxes. That's not a valid thought. It's not anything resembling a valid idea or theory. It's just stupid.

Please name some of the redeeming qualities of your Republican party. Is it the gay bashing? The immigrant bashing? The war-mongering? The gross hypocrisy on obstructionism, spending, waste, or partisanship? Please enlighten me on your party's redeeming qualities.

And they see their job right now as pure obstructionists, which is certainly their right (a right, incidentally, they tried to ban for Democrats when Republicans were in power). There is no principle whatsoever involved with what they are doing. It is gainsaying and that's all it is.

Here's the RNC chair Michael Steele: "Not in the history of mankind has the government ever created a job."

That sums up the stupidity and mendacity of today's Republicans perfectly.

As the article that Krem provided suggests, it is as important to spend on things like education and future services as it is brick and mortar. Obama's plan spends more on education than it does construction, which seems a step in the right direction, although infrastructure is still very important.

Well then thats a great move. The education sector at least in the public realm seems to have been sorely underfunded ever since the Reagan days in the US.

Also Obama does not need to spend to much on US infrastructure, if you want to see really bad roads and transport links you only have to look at us.

I think the many of the Republican arguments against the bill had some merit, some didn't but it's simply wrong to say that none did. It's equally ignorant to say that Republicans are patently wrong, as you enjoy doing.

Don't buy into that. Beeble is right in what he says: it's important to spend on both education and infrastructure. Both have been far too neglected, both need billions on billions in additional funding.

The problem is that the bill only has about $80 billion in Education funding, and about $40 billion in infrastructure funding. $140 billion total to two of the most important aspects is not even close to good enough.

What are they right about? You have an opportunity here to name something. Anything at all will do.

Military spending, military decisions in general, emphasis on free market, economics in general, and the inefficiency of the income tax.

In my mind, Republicans tend to win most military and economic issues, while Democrats pretty much sweep social issues with a few being close (health care and education, both I favor Democratic policy ever so slightly).

Did he say that? I guess he is ignoring TVA, The Smithsonian, the National Park Service, WPA, etc. All of those agencies created millions of jobs and some still do.

More + more + more $$$ is the right thing to do with the military spending? Are you insane? We already spend more than every other country in the world combined. And when anyone tries to reduce the spending AT ALL, Republicans accuse them of wanting terrorists to attack America.

And what's right about putting that $12 billion on a plane and sending it to Iraq? That's NOT waste? And that's just ONE incident. And not only did Republicans NOT fight against waste, if you opposed one red penny that they asked for, you were a terrorist-loving commie traitor.

And yet they're using waste as an excuse to oppose the stimulus.



Um. Iraq. Republicans are responsible for the single greatest and most expensive military blunder since Vietnam. Now, that's not to say Dems are right on military issues, I'll give you that one, but Republicans are dangerously, disasterously wrong.

Oh, and there's the little issue of FUCKING TORTURE. Yeah, turning America into a war crime state. Great idea, fucktards.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. This would be the free market Republicans that just nationalized almost the entire investment banking industry? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Republicans are for whatever is good for BIG BUSINESS. That is NOT the same as being for a free market.



You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding.

I will simply repost what I already wrote about Republicans and their "idea" about the economy:

Republicans have exactly one economic thought, and that's cutting taxes. When times are great, they want to cut taxes. When times are tough, they want to cut taxes. During peace time, they want to cut taxes. During war, they want to cut taxes. That's not a valid thought. It's not anything resembling a valid idea or theory. It's just stupid.

This idea is based on SUPPLY-SIDE theory, which is like basing NASA on the theory that gravity repels things. And that's what Republicans believe, and they are fucking idiots.

But really, even that's somewhat of a smoke screen, since the bottom line is that the only thing they really support consistently is tax cuts.

Ignoring reality is a hallmark of today's Republican party. How else can he make such an absurd claim? It's the same way Eagle argue with a straight face that Republicans are right about their economic and military policies despite the overwhelming evidence and track record to the contrary.

I dislike Beeble for his smug nature but feck I have to agree with him here, especially the military decisions in general bit.

In the 90s they destroyed USA soft power by opposing Clinton's foreign policy at every turn and when they got power they embarked on the only type of war the USA could not fight the guerrilla war.

Eagle no offense man but you seem to know feck all about military logic and tactics.

Really, Eagle? You serious? Have you thought this out or are you just buying into past history -- like say 20 years ago?



Do you realize how much money has just disappeared in the middle east? Like we don't know where it went and no one can account for it? Do you realize how much we've spent on Halliburton when our armies used to provide their own services? My god, talk about wasteful spending...



Like lying about WMD and starting a pre-emptive war that was supposed to be over in weeks and result in us being covered in flowers by grateful Iraqis? They were absolutely wrong about what would happen, weren't they?



While I too support a free market, it has to be a regulated one, and their elimination of regulations is what has led us to our current depression.



Well, I have a philosophical difference with you there on that one, but I can understand why someone who thinks the income tax is bad would vote for the GOP -- but when you balance it against all the other mistakes they currently stand for, seriously...

The collective amnesia of Republicans regarding the last 8 years is nothing short of a medical miracle. And I can't really blame them. Would you want to be even remotely accountable for the Bush presidency?