I think that is the case too. I voted for Kennedy but that is more on what he could have done if he had lived. I would agree Eisenhower did a lot of good for the country. Oh I think Magnus mentioned Clinton.

I cannot believe people but Clinton above Eisenhower, Kennedy or Regan.

Clinton didn't do much of anything special, but neither did Reagan.

Reagan? Are you kidding me?

my reaction

Regan has become greater after death you know, sort of like Pierre Trudeau up here in Canada.

Before hand there was a lot of criticism now and now he is a Demi-God to Republicans and Moderates.

Reagan was a demi-god on the right way before he died. When Republicans won Congress in 1994, they spent the next ten years trying to name everything in America after him.

Yeah, what the hell is he talking about? Reagan is practically Jesus fucking Christ to most Americans, and he has been for a long time. Bush Sr. piggybacked on everyone pretending Reagan's piss was smelted gold.

Reagan didn't do shit. Well, he did one thing: redefine the place of the image of the President in the media, regardless of how true it was. For fuck's sake, he was an ACTOR. He instinctively knew how to make himself look good in front of the press, and he had a genial "Oh, grampa!" routine. It's been well-attested he mostly sat in front of the TV and ate jelly beans while his handlers did real work. There's also a reason he was called the Teflon President: the reason he never got dirtied and why he has been virtually beatified by America is because of the image he was able to put out...and he never did much himself, of course.

But, you want nastiness under his administration?

Iran-Contra, the Sandinistas, Saddam, Reaganomics, creating the modern pandering to middle Americans with Bible salesmen. The Soviets? It may have seemed ballsy, but they were well on their way out with or without Reagan daring them and going on about his Star Wars rayguns. Which reminds me...the incessant spending.

Reagan's image is a fraud, period.

Don't get me started on Clinton either. Waco '93 was another well-furbished media fraud. Or his close ties to sniveling, self-righteous soccer moms.

But the truth is, I have scorn for almost every politician anyway. I'm just sick of all the sanctification of people who for the most part are morally toxic.

so lets say practically you hate about 99% of all historical figures...




True the right always loved him but after his death even moderates and even democrats show praise for him.

Hate, no. But they are human beings. And never overestimate the decency of men in positions of power. If you want my view on America in general, H.L. Mencken would be a good start, excluding his racism and general snootiness. But he got the perpetually broken systems of humanity down to the bone.

You're free to disagree with what Reagan did; however, it's untrue to assert he "didn't do anything." If he didn't do anything, there would be nothing to talk about regarding him.

Alright, he did about as much as Bush Jr. has done. I forgot colloquialisms were verboten here. I don't get it, none of us would disagree on Dubya not being the dark lord of the White House, but what's wrong with saying Reagan wasn't either?

It is rather simple, Regan never failed to be a leader when the time came.

He admitted Iran Contra and never did anything as remotely horrid as what Bush did after Hurricane Katrina.


Eisenhower was seen as do nothing president after his time, but that was because he was so different from Kennedy and he did not do more for civil rights.
However many now see the 50's as a era of peace of Prosperity and leaders during those times are usually well liked and remembered.

Sandinistas. Really, much of what the government did under his administration paved the way to where we are now with Bush. Some of which is his fault, some not quite.

As for Eisenhower, the idea that the 50s were a time of peace and prosperity is a whitewash, of course, but he was fully aware of where we were heading today, did his best to inform the public of it and is underrated to this day as a champion of civil rights.

Not that I'd bowdlerize Eisenhower either. The Eisenhower Doctrine was pretty poisonous and our incessant nosiness in unfamiliar parts of the world has only made the legacy of it more toxic and abused by the exact same powers he denounced in '60. One could argue it led to Gulf War '03 and all of its predecessors.

However compared to Bush I would take Eisenhower and Regan any time.

They are not the best ever but after FDR there have been many mediocre presidents and Regan and Eisenhower shine out.
Kennedy popularity is mostly due to him being assassinated.

Small matter. Every president had his problems. Kennedy had the Bay of Pigs invasion, for instance. Clinton had Somalia.

Reagan's economic reforms were gargantuan, the American equal to Margaret Thatcher. While they undermined labor standards and increased income inequality, they arguably paved the way for the following technological revolution. Silicon Valley never would've been with a 70% tax rate and stifling labor markets. Ronald doesn't belong in the same sentence as George W, who practically hasn't doesn't anything.

Eisenhower told Joseph McCarthy to fuck off. How many leaders have had the courage to face down domestic fascism?

Good analysis!

Any of Eisenhower/Reagan/Clinton for me.

How about Lebanon?

Point taken on the first one, but yes, income inequality has skyrocketed and wages are worth less than they were in 1980. That's at least equal to Silicon Valley. I honestly believe the country is going to turn into Brazil within fifty years or so. Reagan was the final nail in the coffin to the populace not being made docile by the powers that be.

Plus, we'd still have the WWW anyway, thanks to CERN, though who knows how widespread it would have been. On the other hand, I could care less about iPods.

Well that was after Edward R Murrow destroyed him on TV.

Bush Jr. FTW!

...a joke?

I miss Chretien Trudeau is a demi-God in Canada; kind of strange since many historians blame him for losing canada's post WWII grandeur.

In regards to American presidents, I would probably say JFK.

Who the hell picked Carter??