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TonyMontana
Undisputed WoKJ DVD King
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:55 am Posts: 16278 Location: Counting the 360 ways I love my Xbox
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 Re: The Third Debate
I thought Bob Schieffer did a terrific job tonight. He asked questions that were original, and it prompted a lot of good exchanges between the candidates. If he was on the ballot, I'd vote for him.
As for the debate, I thought Obama had another clear victory. He appears so much more Presidential than McCain. McCain is just looks too damn twitchy, squirmy, and weird when he talks, or is listening to Obama. He's hard to watch.
While McCain attempted to attack more, I don't think the negative stuff works at all, except with those he already has on his side. Obama kept taking the high road, and again I think it worked to make him look much more Presidential, and much more like the person who would work across party lines.
The other thing I noticed is that through three debates, Obama's position on the issues always seemed consistent and clear. McCain's haven't seemed that way... it feels like he's all over the map on some issues (especially the economy), and often trying to work out his position while he's live on TV. I hear a new plan every time I see him. That's unsettling, and not something you look for in a President, IMO.
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:38 am |
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TonyMontana
Undisputed WoKJ DVD King
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:55 am Posts: 16278 Location: Counting the 360 ways I love my Xbox
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 Re: The Third Debate
Raffiki wrote: Beeblebrox wrote: In every debate so far, the pundits and journalists have either split down the middle or given the edge to McCain. Um, what? I can't speak for all the networks, but I watched CNN for every debate. After every single one of them, the pundits would basically say it was a draw - except for the few that blantantly support one candidate. I always wondered if they watched the same debate that I did... and then the poll numbers would come out, and I'd realize that THEY were the crazy ones, and I had scored it the right way. I should be a pundit!
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:40 am |
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Beeblebrox
All Star Poster
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm Posts: 4679
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 Re: The Third Debate
TonyMontana wrote: The other thing I noticed is that through three debates, Obama's position on the issues always seemed consistent and clear. McCain's haven't seemed that way... For example, if he freezes spending across the board, how can he enact his $300 billion mortgage buyout plan or his other plans on health care and education?
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:57 am |
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Beeblebrox
All Star Poster
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm Posts: 4679
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 Re: The Third Debate
TonyMontana wrote: I can't speak for all the networks, but I watched CNN for every debate. After every single one of them, the pundits would basically say it was a draw - except for the few that blantantly support one candidate. I always wondered if they watched the same debate that I did... and then the poll numbers would come out, and I'd realize that THEY were the crazy ones, and I had scored it the right way. I should be a pundit! It's not that they saw a different debate, it's just that they care about different things. The pundits/journalists care about pot-shots, political points, and theatrics. But the audience cares about issues and policy. And for some reason, the Republican base cares only about Ayers. They are the most out of touch of them all. They actually believed that encouraging McCain to be MORE negative, more angry, and more bitter was going to turn this thing around for him.
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:02 am |
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TonyMontana
Undisputed WoKJ DVD King
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:55 am Posts: 16278 Location: Counting the 360 ways I love my Xbox
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 Re: The Third Debate
Beeblebrox wrote: And for some reason, the Republican base cares only about Ayers. They are the most out of touch of them all. They actually believed that encouraging McCain to be MORE negative, more angry, and more bitter was going to turn this thing around for him. Yeah, I listen to Fox Radio quite a bit and all of those blowhards - Limbaugh, Hannity, Laura Ingrahm, etc.. - have been begging McCain to go with the Ayers line since day 1. They said that Ayers was an issue that the mainstream media was suppressing, but if McCain wasn't such a wuss, and would just sock Obama on this, it would bring his campaign down... they were sure of it! I guess I can see McCain trying it in desperation, but what I can't figure out is that it CLEARLY didn't work at all. A brain damaged drunken monkey could see that a week ago. So, why in hell is his campaign still going down that road? I can't for the life of me figure out what's going on with the McCain campaign.
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:19 am |
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Corpse
Don't Dream It, Be It
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:45 pm Posts: 37162 Location: The Graveyard
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 Re: The Third Debate
If anything, McCain and the Reps should have attempted something with Alice Palmer, not Ayers. About how Obama and his supporters kept challenging petitions to keep everyone off the ballot, so he'd have no one oppose him for the Senate after Palmer (after deciding to run for Congress) decided to anoint Obama as her successor, but when she lost, and later wanted to run for her Senate Seat again, but couldn't because Obama decided to force her and everyone else off the ballot through petitions. I don't see why he couldn't have just said ok, I'll run against you Palmer, after all, you did name me your successor, it's the least I could do. Quote: One of the candidates he eliminated, long-shot contender Gha-is Askia, now says that Obama's petition challenges belied his image as a champion of the little guy and crusader for voter rights.
"Why say you're for a new tomorrow, then do old-style Chicago politics to remove legitimate candidates?" Askia said. "He talks about honor and democracy, but what honor is there in getting rid of every other candidate so you can run scot-free? Why not let the people decide?" It's an "issue" that was very rarely brought up. I'm not even sure Hillary mentioned it, but if she did, she didn't go into it much at all. I think bringing this "issue" up, say at tonights debate, would have been very interesting.
_________________Japan Box Office “Gods are great ... but the heart is greater. For it is from our hearts they come, and to our hearts they shall return.” “We were like gods at the dawning of the world, & our joy was so bright we could see nothing else but the other.” “There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” “You have to pretend you get an endgame. You have to carry on like you will; otherwise, you can't carry on at all.” "Paper is dead without words / Ink idle without a poem / All the world dead without stories."
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:35 am |
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GuybrushX McMurphy
Cream of the Crop
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:28 pm Posts: 2799 Location: Germany
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 Re: The Third Debate
I think Osama won because he's black.
_________________ "Acting is the only thing I'm good at." - Freddie Prinze jr.
Ator: I love you. Sunya: And I love you. Ator: Why can't we marry? Sunya: Ator, we are brother and sister. Ator: I'll talk with our father.
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:30 am |
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Argos
Z
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 2:20 pm Posts: 7952 Location: Wherever he went, including here, it was against his better judgment.
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 Re: The Third Debate
I think McCain won. - Joe the Plumber
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:32 am |
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GuybrushX McMurphy
Cream of the Crop
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:28 pm Posts: 2799 Location: Germany
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 Re: The Third Debate
_________________ "Acting is the only thing I'm good at." - Freddie Prinze jr.
Ator: I love you. Sunya: And I love you. Ator: Why can't we marry? Sunya: Ator, we are brother and sister. Ator: I'll talk with our father.
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:38 am |
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Beeblebrox
All Star Poster
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:40 pm Posts: 4679
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 Re: The Third Debate
Out of touch. From The Corner:
[Kathryn Jean Lopez] I just don't get any of the insta polls, which seem to give it to Obama.
I finally agree with K.Lo on something. She doesn't get it.
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:30 am |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 40610
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 Re: The Third Debate
It's time to put The Corner in a corner
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:39 am |
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STEVE ROGERS
The Greatest Avenger EVER
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:02 am Posts: 18501
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 Re: The Third Debate
Argos wrote: I think McCain won. - Joe the Plumber Well, each network will tell you there respective choice won, like CNN and MSNBC will say Obama won and FOX News will say McCain won and KJ Obama supports here will say Obama won.. In the end, I felt that Obama came off very Presidential and fluent in his answers to the questions posed to him, but McCain also was the aggressor in this debate and did lay into Obama pretty good that at times, did seem to bother Obama based on some of his facial expressions, especially ythe Ayres issue.. However, it's unfortunate that he waited til the 3rd debate to address some major issues with Obama.. I still feel Obama is holding back info on his involvement with Ayres back in the day and it's really odd that people who support Obama are wiling to overlook a pivotal piece of info like this and does bring into question Obama's judgement in handling terrorism if elected President.. If he's willing to be friends with a former terrorist like Bill Ayres, who knows how he'd handle a terrorist attack and don't deny it folks cause it is true..
Best lines of the debate: Joe "The Plumber" who found his 15 minutes of fame through dumb luck and merely posing a question of concern to Obama about his taxes being raised..
Senator McCain referring to Obama as "Senator Government" which you could hear a little bit of laughter out in the audience..
Last edited by STEVE ROGERS on Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:52 am |
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STEVE ROGERS
The Greatest Avenger EVER
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:02 am Posts: 18501
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 Re: The Third Debate
TonyMontana wrote: Beeblebrox wrote: And for some reason, the Republican base cares only about Ayers. They are the most out of touch of them all. They actually believed that encouraging McCain to be MORE negative, more angry, and more bitter was going to turn this thing around for him. Yeah, I listen to Fox Radio quite a bit and all of those blowhards - Limbaugh, Hannity, Laura Ingrahm, etc.. - have been begging McCain to go with the Ayers line since day 1. They said that Ayers was an issue that the mainstream media was suppressing, but if McCain wasn't such a wuss, and would just sock Obama on this, it would bring his campaign down... they were sure of it! I guess I can see McCain trying it in desperation, but what I can't figure out is that it CLEARLY didn't work at all. A brain damaged drunken monkey could see that a week ago. So, why in hell is his campaign still going down that road? I can't for the life of me figure out what's going on with the McCain campaign. Jesus, what's wrong with you?? Why shouldn't they shoot for the Obama being friends with a former terrorist angle?? Am I the only one who really does feel this is a serious issue and does question Obama's ability to make rational decisions regarding being attacked if this is to occur when he's President?? If he's willing to be friends with a former terrorist, how far is he willing to go if were ever attacked again??? I mean, I know the Economy issue is major forefront right now, but this shouldn't go overlooked..
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:59 am |
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Floydboy
ha ha, charade you are
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:05 pm Posts: 2210
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 Re: The Third Debate
One of the pundits for CNN that back McCain wrote an article about how he realized that there were issues about Obama that should be looked at more closely, but that the American people were so stressed with the economic crisis envolving the country that they weren't going to respond to more negative attacks. He was pleading for McCain to bring out his wit and humor to the last debate and to focus on why he was going to be better for the country and the economy. He seemed to be one of the few that realized that bringing up the negative attacks wasn't going to swing the election in the favor or McCain.
People don't want to hear about alleged pasts when they see their 401K's drop 50%.
_________________ Floydboy
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:07 am |
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A. G.
Draughty
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:23 am Posts: 13347
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 Re: The Third Debate
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:34 am |
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Rev
Romosexual!
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:06 am Posts: 32636 Location: the last free city
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 Re: The Third Debate
_________________ Is it 2028 yet?
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:33 am |
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Caius
A very honest-hearted fellow
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:02 pm Posts: 4767
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 Re: The Third Debate
Beeblebrox wrote: Out of touch. From The Corner:
[Kathryn Jean Lopez] I just don't get any of the insta polls, which seem to give it to Obama.
I finally agree with K.Lo on something. She doesn't get it. You bother reading what she says? At least the others on The Corner, even if you don't agree with them, have more interesting things to say then Lopez. I skip over 90% of the stuff she writes/posts. As to your litmus test post, it might be true that Republicans say that, but they actually seem to be telling the truth. Kennedy (mostly), Souter, O'Connor, Stevens, Powell, Blackmun, Stewart, Brennan, were nominated by Republicans and back abortion. The only Democrat nominee that I can think of that didn't back Roe was White.
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:26 am |
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kypade
Kypade
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 7908
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 Re: The Third Debate
What is the context of these pictures? Was there some sorta joke that goes along with it? Did he just randomly make this face and gesture? Is it fotoshooped?
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:21 am |
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Excel
Superfreak
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:54 am Posts: 22214 Location: Places
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 Re: The Third Debate
Macdaddy and Schiefer went to shake hands after and Macdaddy went to his right as did Schiffer his, thus going opposite directions. McCain kind of juked for a second, made that expression, and turned around in the right direction.
_________________Ari Emmanuel wrote: I'd rather marry lindsay Lohan than represent Mel Gibson.
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:38 am |
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kypade
Kypade
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:53 pm Posts: 7908
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 Re: The Third Debate
oh. hahaha.
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:41 am |
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Excel
Superfreak
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:54 am Posts: 22214 Location: Places
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 Re: The Third Debate
_________________Ari Emmanuel wrote: I'd rather marry lindsay Lohan than represent Mel Gibson.
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:43 am |
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Excel
Superfreak
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:54 am Posts: 22214 Location: Places
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 Re: The Third Debate
am the only one who thought the side by side views were hysterical? obama looked like he was alseep, mccain looked something was getting inserted into his asshole
_________________Ari Emmanuel wrote: I'd rather marry lindsay Lohan than represent Mel Gibson.
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:45 am |
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A. G.
Draughty
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:23 am Posts: 13347
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 Re: The Third Debate
Maroney n cheese wrote: mccain looked something was getting inserted into his asshole Something kind of is. Poll numbers.
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:12 pm |
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Passionate Thug
Top Poster
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:01 am Posts: 5264 Location: Wakanda
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 Re: The Third Debate
Looks like "Joe the Plumber" might have been an undercover gotcha McCain supporter, something was not right about him using him so much and now we may be beginnning to see why: Quote: Unfortunately, the national media has had a field day with Joe, almost universally reporting that he is an uncommitted voter, even though he doesn't make the same claim. He certainly is a nice little story for them, but it's a story they might want to ask some questions about, especially now that they've invited a relative unknown to appear on the morning shows.
For starters, according to Ben Smith, he's not registered to vote. It's hard to believe that this could be the case; it seems likely that there is some sort of clerical error. For example, his name could be mispelled as Worzelbacher instead of Wurzelbacher in the Lucas County file. (Update: Ben Smith notes that appears to be exactly what happened. 'Joe' appears to be a registered Republican under the name of Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher. Also, earlier today at a press conference, Wurzelbacher said he originally registered with the Natural Law Party.)
It also seems odd that he just happens to be buying a business that would earn exactly the amount of money that would qualify it to be a McCain campaign talking point -- $250,000. Even more intriguing, McCain-land said they had never spoken with Joe before, but also made the following statement to Ben, the McCain campaign says they never contacted Joe the Plumber...but they also had his phone number. Now it's very possible someone in the media gave them his phone number, but if you can find any listing for Joe Wurzelbacher in Holland, Ohio, you're more industrious than I am.
The last thing that struck me as odd was that when talking with Katie Couric, Joe was totally on message for McCain (except the part where he said that he had already made up his mind on who he was voting for).
Bottom-line: it's not entirely clear what the real story of Joe The Plumber is. But it is entirely clear that he's not just some undecided voter. He supports McCain, and the McCain campaign sure seems to support him.
This wouldn't be a story worth mentioning if the media wasn't so excited to put him on all the morning shows, but since they are, they have a responsibility to get the story right. So far, there's little indication that they will.
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:19 pm |
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Groucho
Extraordinary
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:30 pm Posts: 12096 Location: Stroudsburg, PA
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 Re: The Third Debate
TonyMontana wrote: Raffiki wrote: Beeblebrox wrote: In every debate so far, the pundits and journalists have either split down the middle or given the edge to McCain. Um, what? I can't speak for all the networks, but I watched CNN for every debate. After every single one of them, the pundits would basically say it was a draw - except for the few that blantantly support one candidate. I always wondered if they watched the same debate that I did... and then the poll numbers would come out, and I'd realize that THEY were the crazy ones, and I had scored it the right way. I should be a pundit! Pundits deal with politics every day and they become somewhat immune to emotions. They pay attention to issues. The average voter, though, is looking at these guys and saying "Who seems more like a leader? Who seems more Presidential?"
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Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:55 pm |
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