Though I wouldn't put too much into it, I was paying attention somewhat to the Ohio undecided viewers thoughts during the debate. Obama seemed to have more peaks than McCain and more sustained positive feedback.

But since this wasn't a detailed question and answer debate (a news conference - I like that one) I don't see how this would change someone's opinion too much on first glance. Maybe it would after reading the transcript though.

Finished making your Nobama sign yet?

The lawyer at the get-together said, "I am going to vote for an empty White House for the next 4 years." Haha, made us laugh.

More CNN polls:

Who expressed his views more clearly in the debate?

Obama 60
McCain 30

Who spent more time attacking his opponent?

Obama 17
McCain 63

Who seemed to be the stronger leader?

Obama 54
McCain 43

Who was most likeable?

Obama 65
McCain 28

It's more about oppurtunity. If you're a kid who drops out of college because of poor work habits (not sub-par intelligence, doing well in school is more about your dedication to the work), well that's their fault, they knew what they were getting into and what this cost, and they fucked up by putting off the work and drinking their faces off... if they were gonna blow school of they shouldn't have went... the big debt is the fault of their laziness. And if you're a middle to lower class student without a rich family background, you should absolutely be aware of that debt and what you'd be getting into by dropping, even if the reason you dropped wasn't because of bad work habits but because you wanted to become a roaming nomad in Europe or something.

On the other hand, students who don't even go to school because they can't afford it, and don't have the "right" to college as you advocate against, don't have the same oppurtunity, their hands are tied from the start.

And on that note, the way I see it, having more people in college is good if for the base fact that it's more people getting educated and more knowledge being spread. The more intelligible and educated people are, the better off the world is, IMO. That was the biggest reason I 'd your original post, the comment that less people should be going to college and become knowledgeable just struck me as ass backwards. I don't take any issue with the perspective that you don't want to pay your hard worked money for someone else's education that they might blow away, I'm not gonna harp on anyone for being conservative. I do have an issue with statements saying college isn't a right and less people should go, though.

More poll results.

Anyone who posts here who says that McCain won is fooling themselves.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_132827.html

The insta-polls, which provide viewers with a somewhat skewered but important insight into how each candidate fared say, by and large, that Obama scored a victory in the second debate.

NBC's focus group of undecided Pennsylvania voters had the Illinois Democrat winning by roughly a 60-40 split. Frank Luntz's focus group, over at Fox, showed undecided voters leaning towards Obama because of his position on health care. CBS's focus group of independents had the Democratic nominee winning the debate at 39 percent to McCain's 27 percent, with 35 percent of the respondents saying it was a tie. Greenberg Quinlan Rosner, a Democratic polling firm, had a focus group of undecideds leaning to Obama by a margin of 42 percent to 24 percent.

Meanwhile, SurveyUSA interviewed 741 debate watchers in the state of Washington, 54 percent of whom thought Obama was the "clear winner" compared with McCain's 29 percent. That same polling firm had the first debate as a tie. In tonight's survey: 42 percent of respondents said McCain was too forceful.

And the CNN focus group of undecided voters in Ohio had the margin at an even wider spread: Obama 54 percent to McCain's 30.

A look at some of the specific issues that these Ohio voters valued suggest that they prefer the candidate who, at least on the surface, appears less on the attack. When Obama discussed health care as a right for all Americans, his numbers were through the roof. At one point, female respondents were dialing in at 100 percent approval. When he talked about using diplomacy in Darfur and pursuing Bin Laden in Pakistan, he again enjoyed strongly enthusiastic responses.

McCain had his moments too, mostly when he was discussing economic matters and propping up businesses to turn around the economy. His low points came when he was on the attack. On MSNBC, Nora O'Donnell charted how independent voters and Democrats soured on McCain when he said that figuring out Obama's tax policy was like nailing Jell-O to a wall.

How solid was the consensus that Obama scored better tonight? Even Bill Bennett, ever the Republican optimist, conceded that the Illinois Democrat scored higher marks.

Interestingly, when Obama attacked, he got HIGHER marks. When people already like you, they like your aggression and steadfastness. When they don't like you, they just think you're being mean and nasty. McCain falls into the latter category.

Tomorrow, expect the GOP to get as vicious and slimy as they've ever been (which is saying something). They are out of options.

so did Hillary. But I disgress.

Here's the clip where it appears McCain refused to shake Obama's hand:

People view McCain as tough and Obama as nice. So if Obama acts a bit tough he seems more well rounded to them. McCain needed to be nice but failed.

Here's Obama's new slogan.

Dang it, I was right. After Brokaw asked the question about the Manhattan project only McCain got to answer. I would have liked Obama to try and answer that one.

And I left right after the last question so I didn't get to see the missed handshake. Ouch.

This would be a great argument and all if college were about education, but it's pretty far removed from that in the US. For the general populace, it's about young adults taking 4 years to do nothing productive, learning essentially nothing, and then segueing onto a job which has nothing to do what they even pretended to be learning about for the previous 4 years. Obviously, there is a large fraction of students that this doesn't apply to, but for the even larger that it does, they have no reason to be in college. College isn't valued for anything academic, it's valued for the availability of alcohol.

What we need to do is focus more on not having a shitty public education system and hopefully produce competent young adults. Those interested in continuing academics would continue to college, the rest simply to vocational training/whatever will be practical in their lives without wasting 4 years in an institution that's purpose they have no interest in.

I disagree, it depends on the field. In my field of Public History my school has 100% in finding students jobs. You get into science and some other fields and it really helps you get a jobs. Now what happens a lot of times is students do a lousy job and just party but that is another story.

It's interesting to keep in mind that this was a townhall style meeting. John McCain wanted TEN of these. And he just whomped.

I agree. That's why students in your program/field should be in college. The ones you described as "doing a lousy job a just partying" shouldn't be there. Hence, less students should be in college.

This debate was hardly a town hall format! What a joke. The format was terrible, there was no interaction at all. What a distortion it is to call this a "town hall" format. I'm very disappointed.

McCain's "That One" moment was ridiculous. It is just one example of the disdain he shows for Obama, which is one aspect that is killing him in the debates. But that particular moment was one of the worst. It really showed his lack of control and his built up anger, to the point that he couldn't even call Obama by his name.

In my opinion, Obama beat McCain by an even larger margin in this debate than the first. Obama continues to be composed and presidential and more adept and so on. The insta-polls and the positive/negative lines during the debate support that.

Peace,
Mike

"Straight Talk Express lost a wheel on that one."

Probably the best sound bite of the evening!

Peace,
Mike

IMO, Obama won this one on substance and more importantly on style. I remember during the first debate Gore/Bush back in 2000, Gore won on actual answers, but his poll number plummeted due to his unnecessary facial expression and gestures. In this case here, McCain may have done better than his first debate, but people will remember the "that one" comment and seeing him wander around the stage like someone who escaped from the hospital room. Those words and images will haunt him. Obama, on the other hand, looked much more presidential.

As with most people, I thought Obama definitely fared better than McCain.

I think it's my blue bias, but I just can't seem to take McCain seriously. He seems so disingenuous. His snide remarks about Obama I'm hoping will hurt him come tomorrow morning ("That one," "I'll answer the question," "Did we get an amount for the fine?")

Also... it was funny when Obama, when talking about health care, said what McCain would do - about giving the $5000 credit but then taxing the employer - and then that's exactly what McCain said but completely ignored and didn't refute the taxing the employer part.

Overall though, I don't think either one really stood out. It was 80%+ of the same old story they've been telling in interviews and other campaign events. Every time either one started to attack the other, I just cringed because it just does NOT make you look good when unprovoked you sling mud.

I also felt that the enforcement of the "rules" resulted in Obama with the shorter end of the stick. McCain went over his time several times but the first time any one of the candidates was "reprimanded" was Obama. I feel like the rules can be more lax (and I'm pretty sure they were with the VP ones) but I don't know, for some reason I felt Brokaw was favoring McCain through "enforcing the rules."

I have yet to see a poll that was under 20 points, let alone single-digits and NONE that show a McCain win.

I don't even think the wingnuts can spin this one. They'll say McCain held his own or stopped the bleeding, but it's over and they know it.

Osama gewinnt, der Pommesmann verliert. Juhu.