The multiplier is going to end up WELL below 2, that would've been 75 and it's in trouble getting to 60 (1.6). Lol.

Truly embarassing run.

Embarrassing and pathetic are often overused, but they fit here, this is a historic mega flop.

Is there a bigger flop from an expectation-performance perspective?

The first did $335 million. Second will barely make $60 million.

This would have been like Avatar: The Way of Water only grossing $134 million. It's just an absolutely unheard of batshit insanity fall from grace. Nobody even contemplated such a scenario, and rightly so. But with Joker Folie a Deux it actually happened.

I remember being shocked at how much Ted 2 lost (also a court room move) for a layup of a sequel, but it went from 218 to 80, or 300 to 100 inflated. The absolute floor for Joker probably should've been the Flash numbers and it... fell through it.

I think this is the biggest flop ever from that perspective. There may have been films that lost more money (John Carter?) but this had everything to at least do somewhat decently even if it was bad, coming off such a huge success with more star power, iconic character, it should've been bulletproof. Batman v Superman had just as bad reviews but it still opened huge. The same should've applied here. I guess there's no polishing a turd in the age of instant word of mouth and bad buzz via social media.

Audiences were also much more jazzed about comic book movies in general in 2016. They’ve skipped The Marvels, The Flash, Blue Beetle, Shazam 2, etc. so they’re more willing to just skip them now than they used to be.

All those flops I just listed would’ve done at least ok in 2016

Yeah, I think there's three criteria to judge box-office: Raw numbers, return on budget, and precedent. (What have other movies in the genre, series, talent etc. done?) There really is a case to be made that Joker 2 is the biggest failure of all time. Like Wikipedia has very wide range on what it may have cost, but it shouldn't even be in the conversation with something like Jupiter Acending which has people asking, for better or worse, how it even got made. Maybe The Marvels, a film it will probably always be compared to, may have lost more (and actually saw a bigger decrease movie to movie) but even then, I think then I think there was a sense ot had less going for it. (The strike. The sense Disney was basically writing it off. Variety article and a widespread air that 2023 was going to be Disney/Marvel's reckoning.) This was just a cosmic fumble.

The reviews--which mind you aren't astronomically bad, don't help either, because except for a few "true art should make you uncomfortable" absolutists means people probably are going to be less inclined to make excuses for it.

Venom will make what Joker is at worldwide just this weekend so even if domestic OW isn't at the last two but seems like it could still retain 80% of the last film's WW total.

Atmosphere/environment/vibes were better before the pandemic. Horror movies did really well during the Trump era. I don’t think there is the same pent-up demand, desire, or energy for this sort of movie after half a decade.

Terrifier 3 is only $5M behind Joker ... probably doesn't have enough gas to get there but that'd be the best result.

The fact that it's even in the ballpark is INSANE (hey Mike! )