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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67059
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Who is the GOAT?
It's a very common discussion these days. It's simple; who is the greatest footballer of all-time?
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Last edited by Algren on Sun Dec 18, 2022 3:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:24 am |
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Rev
Romosexual!
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:06 am Posts: 32115 Location: the last free city
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
Pele forever and ever
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Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:27 am |
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Flava'd vs The World
The Kramer
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:36 am Posts: 23831 Location: Classified
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
Tom Brady.
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Tue Oct 11, 2022 11:57 am |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67059
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
I went for Cristiano Ronaldo. Man Utd bias for sure, but here's also why ... the guy is top goalscorer in almost every way you look at it. Careers are not over yet, and that may all change (Messi isn't far behind him in terms of total club goals, for example), but right now he's #1. Messi is injured and not in the same shape and form as Ronaldo was at his age.
Ronaldo also hasn't won a World Cup (which Pele, R9, and Maradona have) but he did win the Euros with Portugal, and Messi won Copa America, so they're tied there. I just don't see any way that Messi is ahead of Ronaldo. I can see ways that Pele, R9, and Maradona are ahead, but not Messi. People say that Messi is the better footballer, the better technician, etc. etc. but I also do not see that. The game is about winning, and Ronaldo scores goals that win matches. So does Messi, just not as many as Ronaldo has. Messi also needs to have a good team around him to shine, whereas Ronaldo can be a success in any team, in any league ... that's a true sign of greatness. Messi was taken away from his comfort zone and he's struggled (albeit a slight resurgence this season for PSG).
So here's how I would have it right now:
1. Cristiano Ronaldo 2. Pele 3. Ronaldo 4. Messi 5. Maradona
But all that can change after the World Cup. If Argentina wins it and Messi is integral to that success, then I think he moves up to third, possibly higher but that would probably depend on his club statistics eclipsing Cristiano.
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Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:17 pm |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 38093
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
While I don't know that much about soccer, my take would be that unless the older guy was by far and away more accomplished for his time than any modern player (ie. Gretzky), or the sport became less popular (boxing), the GOAT should be the one that did it against more modern competition. Hence Lebron>MJ, Tiger>Nicklaus, Bonds> Ruth, Serena>Martina, Brady>Montana, etc. With that in mind I think it points towards either Cristiano or Messi as soccer GOAT. My impression is Messi is more talented while Ronaldo worked really hard to try to catch up to him, but seems to have fallen short. Ronaldo has not even had the better goal scoring numbers for his career, which he needed cause Messi clearly has more to his game otherwise.
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Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:34 am |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67059
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
Shack wrote: My impression is Messi is more talented while Ronaldo worked really hard to try to catch up to him, but seems to have fallen short. Ronaldo has not even had the better goal scoring numbers for his career, which he needed cause Messi clearly has more to his game otherwise. Not sure if you mean Cristiano Ronaldo (CR7) or Brazilian Ronaldo (R9) when you say "Ronaldo", but here are the goal scoring stats: International goalsCristiano Ronaldo 117 goals for Portugal Lionel Messi 90 goals for Argentina Club goalsCristiano Ronaldo 700 goals for Sporting Lisbon (5), Man Utd (144), Real Madrid (450), and Juventus (101) Lionel Messi 691 goals for Barcelona and Paris Saint-Germain Champions League goalsCristiano Ronaldo 140 goals for Real Madrid (105), Man Utd (21), and Juventus (14) Lionel Messi 127 goals for Barcelona (120) and Paris Saint-Germain (7) Cristiano Ronaldo is ahead in all, but he is also older and has played more games so that may change. However, it is certainly not either Ronaldo that is "catching up" to Messi. Cristiano is ahead of him and Brazilian Ronaldo stopped playing years ago. Which leads nicely to my next point, I reckon longevity certainly plays its part in determining the greatest of all-time. Messi and Ronaldo are both into their 30s, but Ronaldo is still in peak physical shape at 37 (38 in February), Messi turned 35 in June. But Messi has already started to drop off whereas at 35 Cristiano was still banging in 36-37 goals a season.
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Last edited by Algren on Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:43 am |
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Darth Indiana Bond
007
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:43 pm Posts: 11013 Location: Wouldn't you like to know
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
Michael Jordan
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Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:35 am |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67059
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
I redid the poll. Those of you that voted in good faith (and not the jokers choosing 'other' for basketballers and American football players), please kindly choose again.
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Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:47 am |
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Rev
Romosexual!
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:06 am Posts: 32115 Location: the last free city
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
Darth Indiana Bond wrote: Michael Jordan FACTS!!!!
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Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:21 am |
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Shack
Devil's Advocate
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:30 am Posts: 38093
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
Algren wrote: Cristiano Ronaldo is ahead in all, but he is also older and has played more games so that may change
Yes, Ronaldo's advantage is due to games played. Messi's best goal scoring seasons for Barcelona are 50, 46 and 43. Ronaldo's are 48, 46 and 40. Overall I do not see that much separating them on paper in goals.
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Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:44 pm |
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stuffp
Keeping it Light
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:06 am Posts: 11217 Location: Bright Falls
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
Hey, I voted other.
I can/ will elaborate more perhaps... but first just ranks:
1. Cruyff 2. Christiano Ronaldo 3. Messi 4. Maradona 5. Pele
Oh yeah, sure there's some bias in there I guess, but he was equally as technically and tactically gifted which I've seen no equal yet. And as far as CR over Messi, it's close, very close, right now I think Messi is in better form, but CR has had the better career so far.
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Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:21 pm |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67059
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
Shack wrote: Algren wrote: Cristiano Ronaldo is ahead in all, but he is also older and has played more games so that may change
Yes, Ronaldo's advantage is due to games played. Messi's best goal scoring seasons for Barcelona are 50, 46 and 43. Ronaldo's are 48, 46 and 40. Overall I do not see that much separating them on paper in goals. Eh, single seasons mean almost nothing to me. Cristiano scored 42 goals when playing for Man Utd in 2008, and that's a much harder league. But Messi also, as I keep saying, stayed at Barcelona for almost his whole career. Comfort zone player. Take him out of that and he's a less-than-ten-goals-a-season player. And he's now injured at 35 ... Cristiano has never been injured. That's got to be a strike against Messi for his GOAT ambitions.
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Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:19 pm |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67059
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
stuffp wrote: Hey, I voted other. Oh, sorry. You didn't comment so I thought it was one of the American jokers. But anyway, Cruyff? lol
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Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:20 pm |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67059
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
I will make one concession in this debate; Cristiano Ronaldo seriously hurts his chances of being the greatest of all-time with his petulance. He has repeatedly acted like a diva, a man that is above the club he plays for, and that is totally unacceptable.
Now this is partly due to the environment and culture of football, lavishing absolute fortunes on young lads will most likely always turn them into a bunch of classless pricks. But, you don't see Messi acting like a child or disrespecting his club or manager.
Ronaldo was dropped for the recent Chelsea game, and rightly so. But I also hope ten Hag doesn't put him back into the starting XI for the Europa League game against Sheriff. Make him a sub, and don't even bring him on. If I was the manager I'd wait until the League Cup game against Villa to allow him back on the field. He needs to know what he did was out of order and isn't acceptable at Man Utd.
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Sun Oct 23, 2022 4:50 am |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67059
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
Maybe after a few years and not being in the heat of the moment I might change my opinion here, but I feel this week alone has killed Cristiano Ronaldo for this discussion. The GOAT debate is now between Pele, Maradona, Messi, and R9.
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Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:20 am |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67059
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
So ... Al-Nassr. If it wasn't clear before, it is now; Ronaldo has really tainted his legacy. And I think you'll see the "GOAT debate" disappear, or at least continue without Cristiano Ronaldo's name included. I think go forward fans will more so associate him with the likes of Modric, Beckham, and Ibrahimovic. Obviously very, very talented players with huge career achievements, and certainly not company to be ashamed of, but still, not in the same echelon as Messi, Pele, and Maradona.
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Sun Jan 01, 2023 10:51 am |
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stuffp
Keeping it Light
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:06 am Posts: 11217 Location: Bright Falls
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
I think C Ronaldo is still very clearly a top 5 player, but with his performance, lack there-of really, this season, and his relegation to an insignificant football league for the rest of his career put him behind Messi, Cruyff, Maradona and Pele for me now.
I just can't get around Messi at the top anymore, despite him not being as dominant as he was at his peak, he's just the best player with the ball at his foot still right now and that World Cup victory is just a massive achievement to crown him as the best ever for me.
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Sun Jan 01, 2023 6:29 pm |
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MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 22691 Location: Melbourne Australia
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
Messi
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Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:38 pm |
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Algren
now we know
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:31 pm Posts: 67059
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
Is Cristiano Ronaldo the answer if the question is 'greatest player to have never won the World Cup?'
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Tue Jun 27, 2023 12:29 pm |
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MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 22691 Location: Melbourne Australia
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Re: Who is the GOAT?
Yes
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Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:42 pm |
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