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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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crazy ass race. The Stewards had no control over the race and honesstly, alonso and Fisi's penalty have more to do with the stewards that messed up on the red light than anything else.
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Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:02 am |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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2009 - Indian Grand Prix
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Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:08 am |
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MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 23386 Location: Melbourne Australia
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Optimus bABA wrote: crazy ass race. The Stewards had no control over the race and honesstly, alonso and Fisi's penalty have more to do with the stewards that messed up on the red light than anything else. They should have obeyed and stopped at the red light - but it does seem unfair that it was on. This article from autosport.com sheds more light on the issue and why the red light was on. Seems the Canada track layout plays a part: Quote: Going through a red light at the pit exit is one of the most basic mistakes that an F1 driver can make, and yet two experienced drivers from two top teams managed to get it wrong when that first safety car came out, and they paid a heavy price. In both cases it seems that their teams missed the opportunity to warn them.
The way it works is quite simple. The red light comes on as the safety car queue approaches the pit entry, and it goes off when the last car in the queue passes the pit exit. It is triggered manually by the FIA's Claudio Garavini, who watches the races from the start/finish line.
There's a simple reason why the light stays on until the queue has passed - if not, a car could potentially leave the queue, make a pitstop, and emerge in the middle of the pack. If it drives straight through the pitlane it could even emerge in front. Oddly, some people couldn't quite grasp this concept on Sunday, including Felipe himself.
"Everybody was stopping at the same time to change tyres and fuel," he rued. "The pitlane was open, and then when I go out the light was red. I didn't even look because I never expected to stop and change tyres when the pitlane was open for everybody to be disqualified for a thing like that. For me it's a kind of a joke.
"They [the FIA] need to be clever enough to see that the pitlane was open, everybody was stopping at the same time. We saw in the past that some drivers were disqualified because of that, but they were stopping alone, they were stopping when the safety car was coming. I was behind the safety car, the pitlane was open, and I stopped. I never saw something like that. It's a bit of a strange situation."
Suggestions by Massa that the light should not have been on or that the penalty was unfair were frankly wide of the mark. Having said that, at most circuits the red light would probably have turned green as Felipe, the first man to leave his pit, approached the exit.
But the layout of Montreal means that the red stays on for longer than normal, because the safety car and the queue have to negotiate the tight first corner complex. The pit exit represents a significant shortcut and brings the cars out in the middle of Turn 2.
Felipe Massa follows the race from the back of the Ferrari garage following his disqualification © LAT And that of course is exactly what happened to Juan Pablo Montoya at the very same track in 2005. Furious because a radio miscommunication meant he got caught behind the safety car, he came in the next lap and charged out of the pits through a red light. When he got to Turn 1, he barged his way into the middle of the queue, almost banging wheels with David Coulthard in the process.
A black flag and an inevitable exclusion soon followed - that was based on precedents set in the cases of Jarno Trulli in Austria in 2001, and Heinz Harald Frentzen in Australia a year later.
You would have thought that with the Montoya example still relatively fresh in people's minds that teams and drivers would have been on top of the situation, but clearly not all of them were.
Massa got the end of the pitlane and didn't even look at the lights, and just blasted straight out. Behind him Fisichella hesitated, but in effect reacted to what Massa was doing and followed. It was the less experienced Kubica who did the right thing and stopped.
Massa's error wasn't quite as blatant as Montoya's, but the back of the queue was still making its way through the first couple of corners, and after checking his speed, he slotted in at the back behind Tonio Liuzzi.
As you will have heard from team radio transmissions over the years, teams always frantically warn drivers to avoid crossing white lines at the pit exit, and yet in the heat of the moment neither team seemed to have done that in the case of the red light. Perhaps because all the cars had gone past, their natural assumption was that the exit light was no longer an issue, but as noted, Montreal is a special place.
"He did not pay attention," said Ferrari boss Jean Todt of his driver. "He was concentrated on going out, and not having any car passing him. And we did not tell him anything. It's in the rule, if you have a procedure where you say be careful, you will have the red light, you don't have to see it. We did not say [anything] to him, and he did not pay attention."
"If the safety car is going past, then the red light should be on," said Renault engineering boss Alan Permane. "When the last car goes past, the green light goes on. That's it. [Fisichella] kind of followed Felipe out, he did hesitate, and then just went. I'm sure it was a bit of brain-fade. To be honest, I don't want to go too much into it..."
Intriguingly, both teams mentioned that thanks to the slightly curving pit exit, they could not see the lights from the pit stand, from where all messages are of course sent. It would thus make sense that next year in Montreal (and at any other track where there are similar visibility problems), teams ensure that one crew member in front of the garage is charged with keeping an eye on the lights, and passing that information to the pit wall.
Montreal may be an extreme case in terms of the red light delay, but the issue could crop up again elsewhere this season. In the past, when the safety car came out, people came straight in and there was always a very good chance that the light would be green for the simple reason that the safety car could be pretty much anywhere on the track, and the queue would be forming behind it.
Under the current rules we're going to see a lot more examples of groups of cars leaving the queue, dashing into the pits, and racing each other out. And there will be other tracks where the track layout or the tardy pace of a couple of stragglers trying to join the queue mean that the red light will again be on...
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Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:20 am |
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MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 23386 Location: Melbourne Australia
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Optimus bABA wrote: 2009 - Indian Grand Prix
Yeah - big surprise that its so soon too. I think it will be in New Delhi and will join new circuits in Valencia, Abu Dabi, Singapore and South Korea in the next two years aswel. Plus Suzuka wants to come back onto the scene.
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Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:25 am |
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xiayun
Extraordinary
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:41 pm Posts: 25109 Location: San Mateo, CA
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Hamilton won again! 7 straight top 3 finishes for a rookie, incredible.
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Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:23 pm |
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MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 23386 Location: Melbourne Australia
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Yeah its fantastic isnt it? The guy is a breath of fresh air for the sport and is also beating Alonso which is always good 
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Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:03 am |
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Gulli
Jordan Mugen-Honda
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 9:53 am Posts: 13403
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The Hamilton success is great
Pity Kimi isn't settling in at Ferrari though.
And why hasn't Ralf been sacked yet? 
_________________ Rosberg was reminded of the fuel regulations by his wheel's ceasing to turn. The hollow noise from the fuel tank and needle reading zero had failed to convay this message
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Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:24 pm |
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MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 23386 Location: Melbourne Australia
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Rumour had it Ralf would be replaced by the next race but I think they'll keep him to years end as they would have tp pay him out a hefty sum. Ralf's time is up but cant help think that the tyres this year have hurt alot of drivers.
I read an article about how this years tyres have hurt alot of precise drivers especially those who hate understeer like Alonso and Kimi.
Kimi has been struggling but he had the speed in the US which is a good sign. He just needs to qualify on less fuel and get good starts.
Hamiltonmania will be fever pitch i two weeks when the GP circus hits Silverstone!!!
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Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:35 am |
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Gulli
Jordan Mugen-Honda
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 9:53 am Posts: 13403
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Interesting Quali session for France. Looks like Ferrari have found some speed, and Alonso must have run over a black cat on the way to the circuit.
My money would be on a lights to flag for Felipe tomorrow, althou Lewis and Kimi will keep him honest.
_________________ Rosberg was reminded of the fuel regulations by his wheel's ceasing to turn. The hollow noise from the fuel tank and needle reading zero had failed to convay this message
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Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:22 pm |
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Gulli
Jordan Mugen-Honda
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 9:53 am Posts: 13403
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Kimi really delivered the goods in this French race which was great. Granted Massa got screwed by traffic but that shit evens out over a season.
The race itself wasn't a classic, hopefully if they go back to France it'll be in Paul Ricard. As for the others, Hamilton continued his metronomic march to the title and Alonso showed how hard it is to pass at this circuit. Button did very well to get a point in that pig of a Honda.
_________________ Rosberg was reminded of the fuel regulations by his wheel's ceasing to turn. The hollow noise from the fuel tank and needle reading zero had failed to convay this message
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Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:40 pm |
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MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 23386 Location: Melbourne Australia
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Yeah great victory for Kimi. Though there wasnt much between him and Massa I must admit.
I thought the race was decent by 07 standards. The aero on the cars is ridiculous making it so hard to pass or even follow another car closely.
Do you think it will rain in Silverstone? Could spice things up!!
BTW - have you see how Paul Ricard looks now? Has some amazing looking red and blue ripple strips instead of gravel traps to slow the cars down when they go off. They also can configure the track into different types of tracks during testing. They recently did both Monaco and Canada simulation tests on it.
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Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:44 pm |
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MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 23386 Location: Melbourne Australia
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KIMI!!!! Nice win!!
He's the first driver to get 3 wins this season.
Massa drove well from the back and Alonso was good too. A bit lacklustre from Hamilton - but if getting 3rd is lacklustre - then that says alot about him!
Enjoyable all round.
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Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:14 pm |
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Gulli
Jordan Mugen-Honda
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 9:53 am Posts: 13403
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Ron's reasoning from the McLarens not winning was hilarious.
Still great run by Kimi and Lewis did ok despite the performance defecit.
_________________ Rosberg was reminded of the fuel regulations by his wheel's ceasing to turn. The hollow noise from the fuel tank and needle reading zero had failed to convay this message
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Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:58 pm |
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MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 23386 Location: Melbourne Australia
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Gullimont wrote: Ron's reasoning from the McLarens not winning was hilarious.
Still great run by Kimi and Lewis did ok despite the performance defecit.
Ron speaks so much crap its hilarious.
Still a good lead in the championship for Hamilton. Im impressed by all of the drivers in the top 3 teams actually.
Whats also good is that it seems all the drivers that had problems adapting to the BS tyres early in the season - Alonso, Kimi, Kubica and Kovalianen - have all finally come to grips with them - pretty much at the same time.
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Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:20 am |
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Gulli
Jordan Mugen-Honda
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 9:53 am Posts: 13403
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Looks like Albers got the boot from Spyker had to happen eventually.
All this Stepney/Coughlan court case business is leaving a really sore taste in the mouth. Seriously what the hell where the two of them thinking??
_________________ Rosberg was reminded of the fuel regulations by his wheel's ceasing to turn. The hollow noise from the fuel tank and needle reading zero had failed to convay this message
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Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:17 pm |
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Nebs
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:01 pm Posts: 6385
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Rainy races are so much more entertaining than those that don't feature some. Loving the start of this German Grand Prix.
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Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:11 am |
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Nebs
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:01 pm Posts: 6385
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Ah fuck. Red flag. :/
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Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:14 am |
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Gulli
Jordan Mugen-Honda
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 9:53 am Posts: 13403
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Winkelhock leads in his first race!!
More Rain promised 
_________________ Rosberg was reminded of the fuel regulations by his wheel's ceasing to turn. The hollow noise from the fuel tank and needle reading zero had failed to convay this message
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Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:36 am |
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Gulli
Jordan Mugen-Honda
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 9:53 am Posts: 13403
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I decree all F1 races shall have men with hoses to wet the track in future.
Great race overall, pity for Kimi and Lewis but gotta give Alonso props for a bullish move.
_________________ Rosberg was reminded of the fuel regulations by his wheel's ceasing to turn. The hollow noise from the fuel tank and needle reading zero had failed to convay this message
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Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:20 am |
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MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 23386 Location: Melbourne Australia
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Yeah the wet races are great - add that spice when its needed. Though in all my years of watching F1 that has to be the wettest ive ever seen a track - with so many cars flying off. Shame about Kimi though - he's just so damn unlucky - especially in Germany. Alonso was good though - better than Massa winning.
BTW - did you guys see Massa and Alonso's little spat after the race;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpt0s_A6e24
Can anyone translate Spanish 
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Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:20 am |
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Price
Gamaur's sex slave
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:15 pm Posts: 8889 Location: Los Pollos Hermanos
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MadGez wrote: Yeah the wet races are great - add that spice when its needed. Though in all my years of watching F1 that has to be the wettest ive ever seen a track - with so many cars flying off. Shame about Kimi though - he's just so damn unlucky - especially in Germany. Alonso was good though - better than Massa winning. BTW - did you guys see Massa and Alonso's little spat after the race; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpt0s_A6e24Can anyone translate Spanish 
The translation is there too, under the description of the video.
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Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:05 am |
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Nebs
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:01 pm Posts: 6385
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Alonso: "You broke my sidepod there..., go and have a look at it!"
Massa: "Go Fuck yourself! You've won and you say something like this, asshole, you win and say something like this."
Alonso: "I fought with Heidfeld, i fought with everyone, but you can't do that."
Massa: (Touching Alonso) "Try to learn something"
Alonso: "You try to learn something"
Massa: "Try to learn something!"
Alonso: "Try to learn something, i fought with all the world today, and with 3 laps to go, we touch!"
Massa: (sitting on his chair) "Good job!"
Alonso: "Good job!"
Massa: (Standing up, sarcastic tone) "I did that on purpose, like i did that on porpuse in Barcelona!"
Alonso: "Ok, ok..."
Massa: (Touching Alonso) "Try to learn something"
Massa: (Looking to someone who invite him to relax) "That's him!"
Hmm.
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Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:30 am |
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Gulli
Jordan Mugen-Honda
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 9:53 am Posts: 13403
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Pity they didn't have a full on Kanann Hornish style smackdown.
_________________ Rosberg was reminded of the fuel regulations by his wheel's ceasing to turn. The hollow noise from the fuel tank and needle reading zero had failed to convay this message
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Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:35 pm |
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MadGez
Dont Mess with the Gez
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:54 am Posts: 23386 Location: Melbourne Australia
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Thanks Nebs.
Here's a couple of vids with Tarantino at the European GP. Talks about the Charger in Death Proof etc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6clOBId ... ed&search=
and about F1, favourite website etc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxtV_WEMOTM
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Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:23 am |
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bABA
Commander and Chef
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:56 am Posts: 30505 Location: Tonight ... YOU!
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yamamoto is back
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Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:38 pm |
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