The Great Wall

Well, colour me surprised! I thought it was excellent. Very entertaining from start to finish.

Zhang Yimou is a cut above the rest when it comes to this type of film. The cinematography is quite nice at times. There are multiple beautifully aligned shots that I believe other Chinese directors would not be able to find, but Yimou does. It's things like this that set it apart from the travesty that I expected, and being co-penned by Edward Zwick, it is also thankfully politically neutral. While China is praised in the film, the production is clearly not on a propaganda mission, unlike Jackie Chan's Dragon Blade. All nationalities are both portrayed as strong, proud, and competent. Damon's place in the film (as the thief) also feels earned and not shoehorned in as the white saviour (though he does save the day). The visuals are great, and the first siege (which comes early on in the film) is quite enthralling. The battle build-ups kept me hooked. The film doesn't rest for long before the action comes again. The scale of the film is impressive. The monsters (or "Tao Tei") are awesomely creative, and the threat level for this seemingly unbeatable creature that strikes every 60 years is masterfully strong and is relentless until the end. It touches on parts of history, which makes the film that much richer. It shows some very creative battle attack and defence measures from the wall, and it also shines a light on Chinese ingenuity and creation such as copper sheets, lanterns (there is a beautiful lantern scene), and gun powder.

Matt Damon is solid and puts on a slightly less Damon-like accent, which works well (I also enjoyed the brief history of his character that he explains while dining with Jing Tian). It was cool to see Willem Dafoe in this in a small role. The Chinese stars are also largely good. Jing Tian puts in a typically Chinese performance but regardless, I liked her, and Andy Lau knows his role well playing the strategist to perfection. Even Lu Han was correctly utilised as the ever-so-slightly cowardly and inexperienced but braver-than-you-think young soldier. Eddie Peng is useless as usual, but Pedro Pascal adds a nice banter with Damon without it ever looking too desperately for laughs (unlike Chan's Dragon Blade).

B+

Seeing the credits at the end makes you realise that The Great Wall is a true co-production. It is not just a vanity co-production like many films are where an American film needs Chinese support in order to get a good release date in China, or where a Chinese film just needs funding to try and enter the US market. There is an even mixture of foreign and Chinese talent working on the film, and I believe that is why the film can and probably will appeal to both sides of the world. There is a healthy mix of Chinese and English (nobody will have an issue not understanding anything - it is made for English-speaking audiences). It is accessible and not once did I feel it was too Chinese or slow or not on-point.

List time!

The Great Wall B+
House of Flying Daggers B
Curse of the Golden Flower B-
Hero C+

The Great Wall is Yimou's finest, though I would really like to see The Flowers of War.

I found this to be pretty dreadful. A little more than an hour in I couldn't help myself checking the time as I got a bit bored with it. The cast if full of mostly Chinese stars and among them is Matt Damon as the lead. Damon gets by fine, doesn't get much to work with but handles the roles capably. I couldn't care anything about his character's motivations or being, mostly everyone felt pretty stale, in large part because of the script or dialogue basically. The film goes pretty much from set piece to set piece with very little conversation between any character. Pedro Pascal though is one of the few highlights of the film in a fun role as the amicable side-kick to Damon. Another highlight and probably the best part of the film are the visuals, the film is well shot, the effects are good and contribute to some enjoyable watching. Also Damon's bowl and arrows trick was neatly done. Ultimately anything good is unfortunately broken down by an uninspiring plot that's full of tropes and too many attempts to either give screen time to annoyingly traditional Chinese parts or bad attempts at humor.

D+

While I greatly respect Yimou because of some of his previous films, this is not one of his or anyone involved's strongest works. Aside from nice effects to expect from a blockbuster it just offers no engaging substance for me.

Is what I prefer to this film actually. Dragon Blade is definitely often trying to be funny, but I had more fun with the whole story and characters in that, although by all means Dragon Blade is a closer to bad than good film (as well).

The Great Wall definitely takes itself more seriously, but I found the script lacking any emotion to become invested in it.



While something being too Chinese doesn't necessarily have to be bad, I found it very Chinese, aside from the general production value perhaps. I haven't seen many Chinese films actually, but the dialogue in this just reminded me of all of those Chinese tv-dramas.

I agree with the accessible part though, but I'd even say that's exactly where it did wrong in trying to appeal to both very different audiences and ending up with a more clashing than harmonious end-result.

Well, it doesn't surprise me that you disliked it, though I am disappointed that you couldn't appreciate its charms. You seem to need a joke every few minutes (which is why you found Pedro Pascal's character a highlight, and why you love every Marvel film, AND why you prefer Dragon Blade). Once you get passed the idea of "monsters attacking China", The Great Wall is a more serious Chinese legend. Dragon Blade is just trash.



Obviously it is Chinese. It is a legend about The Great Wall of China. I mean it wasn't inaccessible like most Chinese TV dramas and films alike.

I even kind of like the legend behind the film and it's at times a bit exiting as a monster film, but the monsters are not inventive. "Kill the queen" has been done so many times and while it has a serious tone to it, the dialogue and characters just feel very shallow to me. I can like a good serious film without jokes, but this lacked depth for me to get fond of it.

I cannot comprehend this at all. Dragon Blade is so shoddily made in all areas, but you forgive all of that because of a constant stream of shit, forced comedy?

The Great Wall is competently made in all areas, but you think it's shit because it has one joke every 45 minutes. Why do you so badly need humour to get through a film?

Sure, "kill the Queen" has been done many times, but so have many other conventions in films such as Fast Six and Everest, but you seem to give those a pass.

The monsters were creative for me. The way they communicate, their limitations with regards to magnets and eyes, the way they hunt as a collective force, retrieve their dead so the Chinese could NOT study them, retrieve food to feed the Queen, and their overall design. It was all something I had not seen before, and I thought it was pretty cool and well though out.

How is the dialogue shallow exactly? Please. I cannot wait to hear this. What did you want exactly? Did you want every character to cry and tell of their hard childhood where their father beat them and their mother was a working girl? Dude, this isn't Tangerine. This is Chinese legend. I don't believe you are enjoying the film for its merits.

past

Yeah, I'm still not sure which is correct. I always attribute "past" with future, present and past. And "passed" with moving beyond something or someone. To me, it seems more logical to use the latter when saying to psychologically move beyond something, so I'll keep using it. But thanks for adding nothing of value once again.

Past is correct. I actually checked to make sure before I corrected you. You spent a lot of time on numerous occasions to correct other people's grammar, I thought you'd be grateful to also learn something new.

That's where the English language fails. I'll continue using what makes sense. #NotGrateful

Yeah, shoddily is a good way to describe Dragon Blade, but I had some fun with, I enjoyed Cusack's and Brody's role, they were quite campy in a good way.


And the Great Wall, yeah, has quite a good production team behind it, I just felt too much went about the aplomb of the effects they didn't pay much attention to the script. I really don't care about humour or no humour, as long as it's good. For example they had the joke, where 2 guys are whispering away about an injured guy near them at the beginning, and the injured guy says "I can hear you"...ok fine. But then at the end of the film, when Damon and the General are having a little 1-on-1, Pedro Pascal excuses himself a bit further away...Damon says something about Pedro, and Pedro notes "I can hear you"...sure some films have recurring jokes that work, here I found it lame.

Reading this part (even I didn't catch it before Lecter pointed it out), aside from it makes sense or not, I think past sounds more natural than passed in such circumstances.

Sounds more, yes. Mostly because of lazy speech. This is just "should of" and "should have" all over again.

Those are pretty much the one jokes in the film. I don't see a problem with the line, but Pascal's delivery should have emphasised "still" more. I can STILL here you! That would have been funnier.

stuffp, what were your thoughts on Jing Tian, Eddie Peng, Andy Lau, and Lu Han?

Andy Lau was fine or good. I love Eddie Peng actually, but thought he was completely out of place here, a mere unnecessary cameo role I found it to be.

Jing Tian and Lu Han were both very underwhelming for me, JT looks pretty but packs no punch.

What punch did you want Jing Tian to pack?

As for Eddie Peng, he was useless. I don't like him or dislike him. He's useful in Cold War and Cold War 2, but here he is a sizable name that is reduced to a henchman with maybe 1-2 lines of dialogue and almost no screen time (yet he gets his own poster). It is stupid.

Why was Lu Han underwhelming for you?

Yeah, so agree completely on the Eddie Peng part.

Jing Tian if she could just some emotion; she was very, well maybe realistically cold Chinese-style, towards her peers in the film. I largely blame this on the dialogue and as you asked, "what is shallow about it", I have a hard time answering that now...I can't recall anything memorable, a lot of it was in Chinese still and that doesn't stick as well I think...but it was all reduced to brief one line sentences I felt. Trying to remember, like: "they killed a tao tei", "wow", "actually he killed a tao tei himself", "himself?", "yes", "wow"...
Not sure, but a lot of this dialogue, I just found very uninspiring and thinking about it I feel it was like it was an English written script, and they translated a lot of that into simple Chinese and then some of that perhaps back to English again.

And Jing Tian, her English is heavily accented, so I felt her very limited in delivering her lines.

Lu Han he was just the very shy, obedient, servant, maybe realistically Chinese again in some- way-type character. You can put anyone in that role and it works the same.

I feel you're being negative without reason. Jing Tian was a military commander. Born and raised within the military, taught to fight this war since childhood. Being emotionless is exactly as she should have been. She is hard but beautiful, firm but graceful, which is precisely why she was in charge of the Crane Troop, and is exactly why she was promoted to commander of the Nameless Order when Zhang Hanyu's character died.

I don't get what you mean by uninspiring dialogue. This isn't a sports drama. What is the dialogue supposed to inspire you to do exactly? It is a historical, fictional, war film. All the inspiration you need comes from the visuals and the score.

Eh, yes, you could put anyone in Lu Han's role and it would work, but I meant more; "what did you think of the role itself?".

I wouldn't say heavily accented. But even if you think it is, why is that an issue? This was back in a time when only one foreigner (so far) had visited China. I'd say her English skills were far too good for such limited practice. Her accent being strongly Chinese makes total sense, though.