Excellent HR Singer/Superman/X-Men Article
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Johnny Dollar
The Lubitsch Touch
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 pm Posts: 11019
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 Excellent HR Singer/Superman/X-Men Article
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/co ... siness.jsp
Makes me all the more sad that Singer didn't finish the X-Men trilogy...even if, ironically, Ratner's uninspired X3 turned out better than Singer's Supes.
But reading that sure makes it seem like the Superman sequel will be made. If it is, and Singer can keep his "Wrath of Khan" promise, I'll ber first in line.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:33 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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Superman Returns will be profitable for WB, but not the film itself, but in a way that it set up a franchise that will end up profitable for WB in the long run, even if the first installment struggles to break even.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:40 pm |
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Johnny Dollar
The Lubitsch Touch
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 pm Posts: 11019
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David Poland, whiny bitch, responds to HR article...and has more quite a few valid points:
Quote: So WB was the winner in the X3/SR showdown?
And the X-Men franchise is worn out because... uh... it beat Superman Returns domestically, internationally and on opening weekend - against much stiffer competition - by almost double?
And why is anyone doing a Bryan Singer suck up story? Well, I guess they were done sucking up to JJ Abrams for the failure of Mission: Impossible III, whose final numbers will almost exactly match the numbers on Superman Returns... except it cost no less than $50 million less to make and marker.
WORLDWIDE THIS SUMMER POTC: Dead Man's Chest $860m (and rising) The Da Vinci Code $750m X-Men: The Last Stand $441m Mission: Impossible III $392m Cars $376m Superman Returns $348m (with 2 major territories left) Over the Hedge $300m
And gee... isn't M:I3 the impetus to throw Tom Cruise - who have 5 times as many $200 million-plus worldwide grossers on his resume than Bryan "2 X-Men & A SoaperMan" Singer and 4 $400 million grossers to Singer's 1 - off the Paramount lot?
There is a likelihood that Superman Returns will gross less than Godzilla. God-muthafuckin'-zilla.
Bryan Singer has no history as a tentpole director. He is an arthouse director. And the only reason that there was an X2 was because Bryan was "handcuffed" by Tom Rothman's restrictive budget on X1... or that franchise would have died right there.
And where the HELL did WB dig up Cheo Hodari Coker as The Journalist for Anne Thompson to talk to and to defend Bryan Singer? Is that a joke? Did Anne dial those digits with a straight face?
I love Anne. I think she is pushing a strong, progressive agenda for journalists. But geez, girl…
And shame on WB for throwing three other films and teams of filmmakers under the bus to try to save face on the one film they plan on continuing to try to milk... like milking a rattlesnake.
Superman Returns, the film, will definitely lost money. And I honestly can't see them making money on a second one, despite what HR contends. But if they want to wait until 2009 to find out, have fun. SR, unlike Spiderman or, say, X-Men, isn't overflowing with great word-of-mouth.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:49 pm |
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andaroo1
Lord of filth
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:47 pm Posts: 9566
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Singer needs to be removed from the Superman project.
Personally I thought Superman was good/light but void of long term interest. But if Singer plans on using Zod (Superman II), after he just got done basically remaking Superman then he needs to go.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:44 pm |
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Gulli
Jordan Mugen-Honda
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 9:53 am Posts: 13403
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From the article
Quote: (According to sources close to the movie, "Last Stand" cost about $168 million after tax rebates.)
Have to admit I find that line interesting. I'll be treating raw budget figures for movies more sceptically in future.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:49 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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Gullimont-Kyro wrote: From the article Quote: (According to sources close to the movie, "Last Stand" cost about $168 million after tax rebates.)
Have to admit I find that line interesting. I'll be treating raw budget figures for movies more sceptically in future.
Maybe now Killuminati will come to some senses...
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:46 pm |
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Joker's Thug #3
Extraordinary
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:36 am Posts: 11130 Location: Waiting for the Dark Knight to kick my ass
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Can we cut all budgets in half now?
_________________ "People always want to tear you down when you're on top, like Napoleon back in the Roman Empire" - Dirk Diggler
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:50 pm |
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Thegun
On autopilot for the summer
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:14 pm Posts: 21898 Location: Walking around somewhere
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Please, I've been saying this for so long. Superman was a disappointment, but will still make money for the studios.
the 210 figure is very realistic, as the 50 million from predevelopment was obviously paid for from years passed from other successful films. That would mean that Superman Returns needs to make 400 million to break even. It will be near 375 million by the end of the weekend. It will probably finish around 410 million. And then lets not forget DVDs and merchandising. From the percentage that the studio makes from that. Superman will make over 100 million profit for WB.
That being said, Thats bullshit that X3 was the loser. It easily beat Superman Returns. It was a crowd pleaser and exceeded on Superman in every aspect, except legs.
Judging from past films figures. It looks like X3 will end up making over 750-900 million, from DVD, Theaters, merchandising and all that good stuff, and has two spinoffs that will definitely be made. From the same realm, I dont see Superman generating more than 750 million. and thats best case scenario. Also though a sequel is evident, its not garanteed. The Xmen franchise is in much better shape than Superman at this point.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:44 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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Thegun wrote: Please, I've been saying this for so long. Superman was a disappointment, but will still make money for the studios.
the 210 figure is very realistic, as the 50 million from predevelopment was obviously paid for from years passed from other successful films. That would mean that Superman Returns needs to make 400 million to break even. It will be near 375 million by the end of the weekend. It will probably finish around 410 million. And then lets not forget DVDs and merchandising. From the percentage that the studio makes from that. Superman will make over 100 million profit for WB.
Um, sorry, but no. Even if you take $50 million out of the play, which you shouldn't, it needs way more than $400 million worldwide to break even. Do you realize that studios get QUITE A BIT LESS than 50% from international grosses? Also, did you notice the poart where it said that $100+ million was spent on international marketing? It needed $500+ million to be close to profit from box-office takes.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:31 pm |
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Johnny Dollar
The Lubitsch Touch
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 pm Posts: 11019
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Shit, SR would need a heck of a lot more than $500 million to break even. To make and market, it ran, at minimum, $350 mil.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:53 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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yoshue wrote: Shit, SR would need a heck of a lot more than $500 million to break even. To make and market, it ran, at minimum, $350 mil.
I said "to be close" and assuming that merchandising and product placement would roughly cover the marketing costs.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:59 pm |
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Nazgul9
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:32 pm Posts: 11289 Location: Germany
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For the hundreds time, Superman will make a profit, not much, but it will. Tax rebates, box office, merchandising, tie-ins, product placements, Videos & DVDs, TV rights etc. will make for that. Do you honestly believe they would already consider a sequel if they had lost money? I don't think so. Many movies deemed flops initially made money in the end. People are so quick to write off a movie (especially if they don't like it) without seeing the big picture...
Oh and X3 better than SR? All i can say to that is: LOL.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:09 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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Nazgul9 wrote: For the hundreds time, Superman will make a profit, not much, but it will. Tax rebates, box office, merchandising, tie-ins, product placements, Videos & DVDs, TV rights etc. will make for that. Do you honestly believe they would already consider a sequel if they had lost money? I don't think so. Many movies deemed flops initially made money in the end. People are so quick to write off a movie (especially if they don't like it) without seeing the big picture...
Oh and X3 better than SR? All i can say to that is: LOL.
Of course they would consider a sequel even without a profit. They know that this won't really be a bomb for them in the long run. It will break even, maybe next year or the year after. Not as fast as you think. But they also know that a sequel would not gross less than this, but thanks to the existing sets and all, it'd certainly cost less or just as much at most. It set up a franchise for WB, they would not let it drop. Hulk was definitely not really a hit for the studio, yet they greenlit the sequel right away.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:15 pm |
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andaroo1
Lord of filth
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:47 pm Posts: 9566
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Dr. Lecter wrote: But they also know that a sequel would not gross less than this, but thanks to the existing sets and all, it'd certainly cost less or just as much at most.
I'm not convinced that a Superman sequel would gross more (is that what you are saying?)
And they don't keep the sets, they were all destroyed. Which is typical for almost any movie.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:20 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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andaroo wrote: Dr. Lecter wrote: But they also know that a sequel would not gross less than this, but thanks to the existing sets and all, it'd certainly cost less or just as much at most. I'm not convinced that a Superman sequel would gross more (is that what you are saying?) And they don't keep the sets, they were all destroyed. Which is typical for almost any movie.
Not necessarily significantly more, but pretty much the same number as the original due to inflation.
And they keep tons of the props and they won't need conceptual designs for most of the stuff anymore.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:27 pm |
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Nazgul9
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:32 pm Posts: 11289 Location: Germany
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No, it won't just break even, it will make profit. (i can play this game forever  )
Hulk sequel greenlit right away? That's news to me. To my knowledge it was greenlit this very year.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:28 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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Nazgul9 wrote: No, it won't just break even, it will make profit. (i can play this game forever  ) Hulk sequel greenlit right away? That's news to me. To my knowledge it was greenlit this very year.
Superman 2 is not greenlit either yet, but we all know it's coming because the producers and the director are saying saw. Same for Hulk. Ever since it came out, Avi Arad and others kept assuring there'd be a sequel. It is really not surprising. You might lose money on one film, but know that in the long run it'll give you profits with the franchise.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:32 pm |
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zingy
College Boy Z
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:40 pm Posts: 36662
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Thegun wrote: the 210 figure is very realistic, as the 50 million from predevelopment was obviously paid for from years passed from other successful films.
So, if you lost $100 dollars, would you say to yourself, "well, I lost $100, but it's okay because a few years ago, I found $20 on the ground! And I won like $50 from this scratch-and-win card back in 1998! Who cares about the $100!"? I hope not.
Studios tend to not like losing money, you know...
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:52 pm |
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Nazgul9
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:32 pm Posts: 11289 Location: Germany
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Let's put it this way, Superman 2 feels more like a sure thing than Hulk 2 did at the same point in time. Hulk was the bigger disappontement of the two. Btw, i'm getting a direct to video vibe from the Hulk sequel (cheap production, unknown actors and director), it surely doesn't feel like a studio tentpole.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:00 pm |
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Nazgul9
Extraordinary
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:32 pm Posts: 11289 Location: Germany
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Zingaling wrote: So, if you lost $100 dollars, would you say to yourself, "well, I lost $100, but it's okay because a few years ago, I found $20 on the ground! And I won like $50 from this scratch-and-win card back in 1998! Who cares about the $100!"? I hope not.
No, but i think it's equally wrong to count these $50m spent on previous attempts towards the Singer production.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:06 pm |
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Heinrich Himmler
Cream of the Crop
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:17 pm Posts: 2716 Location: Berlin, Germania
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Nazgul9 wrote: Oh and X3 better than SR? All i can say to that is: LOL.
i agree. its graceful filmmaking vs. monkey with a movie camera filmmaking. x3's production schedule alone gives me a good laugh.
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:08 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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Joseba B-Loki wrote: Nazgul9 wrote: Oh and X3 better than SR? All i can say to that is: LOL. i agree. its graceful filmmaking vs. monkey with a movie camera filmmaking. x3's production schedule alone gives me a good laugh.
You have seen X3?
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:09 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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Nazgul9 wrote: Zingaling wrote: So, if you lost $100 dollars, would you say to yourself, "well, I lost $100, but it's okay because a few years ago, I found $20 on the ground! And I won like $50 from this scratch-and-win card back in 1998! Who cares about the $100!"? I hope not. No, but i think it's equally wrong to count these $50m spent on previous attempts towards the Singer production.
No, it's not. The money is gone. Gone and not given back in any way.
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:11 pm |
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Dr. Lecter
You must have big rats
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:28 pm Posts: 92093 Location: Bonn, Germany
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Nazgul9 wrote: Let's put it this way, Superman 2 feels more like a sure thing than Hulk 2 did at the same point in time. Hulk was the bigger disappontement of the two. Btw, i'm getting a direct to video vibe from the Hulk sequel (cheap production, unknown actors and director), it surely doesn't feel like a studio tentpole.
What you already know its actors? Enlighten me!
Oh and F4 didn't have very known actors/director either and see, it made $150+ million.
_________________The greatest thing on earth is to love and to be loved in return!
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:12 pm |
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Heinrich Himmler
Cream of the Crop
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:17 pm Posts: 2716 Location: Berlin, Germania
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Dr. Lecter wrote: Joseba B-Loki wrote: Nazgul9 wrote: Oh and X3 better than SR? All i can say to that is: LOL. i agree. its graceful filmmaking vs. monkey with a movie camera filmmaking. x3's production schedule alone gives me a good laugh. You have seen X3?
no, but about 15 minutes of embarrassing trailers/making ofs/other preview clips dont lie. but perhaps it all magically works in the context of the whole movie 
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Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:17 pm |
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