I think some people involved in this thread bashed me as an america-hater in other threads (Armstrong etc.) so I think noone will take my opinion as a patriotic statement. In all honesty United 93 was by far the best movie I've seen this year. Not because it is patriotic (which it is not) and not because it is critical of the US (which it is neither). It's just a tight, gripping story that hit all the right notes and managed to recreate not only a 9/11-event, but the emotions and the confusion that came with it. It would be the right thing to nominate this movie not because of the topic but because of how good it actually is ans especially because WTC has proven how easily such a movie could have done everything wrong.

Grrrr....

I just typed out an in depth analysis about Flight 93's chances, and when I submitted, it told me I had to log in for some reason and I lost it. I think somebody's trying to tell me to just keep my opinion to myself and leave the intelligent conversation to others. That's good advice.

Are you auto logged in? Because if you are signing in each time you come on kj, it keeps for session ID active only for a certain period of time. if there is no activity during that time, it will expire your session. Its a forum security feature for those who do not like to save their login info in case they're using public terminals. almost all sites have this.

Yes, I am logged in automatically when I come here. I never log out. The post that I posted above was the second time I tried to post that. It did the same thing and told me I had to log in, and even clicking "back" didn't bring back my post.

You have mighty strong feelings about a film you havent even seen yet. Sorta funny, sorta odd.

Oh and btw, LMS 93% on RT, UA93, 90%. I'm aware of other averages but suffice to say, there isnt a world of difference betweeen the two. Both films will end up in Top 10 of 2006 lists. So again, critical fallback isn't your best avenue.

Hey guys, I have a question about this metacritic thing. The 100s? Do they change as the year goes on? Like, can a movie be the "best to date" a critic has seen, and then later can another "best to date" unseat it?

I think the response to U93 was very strong, considering alot of critics were keeping an especially close eye to hidden messages and still endorsed it. But its no "crash" run. It was in and out of theatres in a matter of weeks, and while movie fans like Greengrass, he's a much smaller name than Haggis riding off Eastwood. Also, zero acting stand-out to help move it along.

I'm with Loyal that alot of movies are very well received and most of them don't get BP noms. Look at how kvetchy everyone was last year about the movies being so "outside of the mainstream" having all pretty much made less than 90 million (and some only 20). No way its going to go even lower than that. On occassion a real indie sneaks through, but that usually has to do with the credentials of veteran directors (Lynch, Altman, Leigh). Neither U93 or LMS is going to get a BP nom. But if I had to pick one, I'd give it to LMS, because its run will be deep into October and fresher in people's minds. But no, I don't see either getting a BP nom.

Though its an odd year. No clear favorites or real buzz yet and we're going into autumn, so maybe there will be some kind of surprise?

I'm clearly biased but I'd give the advantage to LMS over the two films. I have a few reasons.

1). LMS will still be on the minds of voters.
2). Toni and Greg have both been nominated for Oscars in the past.
3). Alan may very well get a Best Supporting Actor nom.
4). Likely Best Original Screenplay nom.
5). Though LMS will lose the GG to Dreamgirls, I can see LMS faring better with the SAG awards, NYFC, LAFC, etc.

I'll try again to add my 1 cent later, if it'll let me.

It's not really even worth one cent, but that's the lowest currency we have.

LOL

I don't have a problem with patriotic american films. I loved Rocky IV - the don of American jingoism. But I wouldn't even argue that United 93 is patriotic. It toes the line so blandly between not wanting to villify the terrorists or offend any of the families that it errs into boredom.

The problem with the film isn't that it's patriotic. It's that it's rubbish. I can see why the critics fawned over it. It's a re-telling of an extremely emotional event, and the style is very documentative. It almost challenges you to call on it's flaws ("the acting's bad" - "yeah, but they're the real people! the people who were there on 9/11... where were you!") But take away the emotion it conjurs and it's pretty much just a big screen Crimewatch re-enactment. A long, boring Crimewatch re-enactment.

With WTC it's different. The film's dramatic, sentimental, sappy... it's a Hollywood movie. United 93 isn't. It's just dull. All of the tension comes from your own knowledge of the inevitable. And when the inevitable finally happens it's incredibly anti-climactic and, dare I say it, dull. WTC's bound to get more slams critically because it's more Hollywood.

check if yoour computer automatically asks for cookie refreshing on scheduled basis. I know that my work computer loses my cookies every 3 or so weeks requiring me to log in to certain places i usually visit. must have been the time you were posting that the cookie expired.

Both will.


These are good arguments for acting awards. I agree on the Screenplay, that's something where LMS has a clear advantage over U93 (which, in no way, given the type of movie, will get a screenplay nomination).


I can't see any clear advantage with LMS at NYFC, LAFC, etc. At best they are equal (and I would still give the "weight" of U93 significant attention in these types of awards) definately SAG, but it's not high on the radar there with all the big star vehicles coming out.

U93 is a much larger candidate at DGA, Cinematographer's, etc. Both probably won't get PGA's (but who knows)

The fact that it's mid-August and we're still arguing about U93's chances should be fairly telling. We'll have to really see whether or not we will be talking about LMS in a few months. I'm not one to write off it's chances, although I'd rather have Universal on my side than Fox Searchlight (20th Century Fox).

Then, it is possible that both could be nominated. We'll be lucky if any of the films released that are considered real contendors will be hits at all.

You're points on United 93 being in essence an extended Crimewatch episode is very true. It played out very similerly to "Bloody Sunday" "Omagh" or parts of the Hillsbourgh TV movie. Personally I found the former movies to be deeply moving and effective but I was left very cold by United 93.

I wonder is there a prior emotional connection needed to "enjoy" this movie as may be the case with the Movies above? If thats the case United 93 really shouldn't be considered oscar worthy.

But if it's so dull and if it's just the critics who seem to be captivated by it and given the reason to "fawn" over it...then how come that the majority of people you'd meet onpine would be raving about it as well. Most people at KJ loved it, all people I know in Germany who say it, loved it (despite having little connection to the event), obviously it is beloved at IMDB with its 7.8/10 grade (which is significantly brought down by over 10% of 1 votes)... How come?

These arguments could just as well be named for The Pianist and Schindler's List.

Not really. My arguement is the style United 93 sticks to requires an already strong emotional connection to the event for it to be successful as a movie.

The Pianist and Schindlers List is far more about the humanity/inhumanity in all of us and general human actions and isn't as narrowly focused making it easier to empathise with the characters and the story.

Yet both require a GREAT DEAL of background in order to tell their stories, as these two movies do not contain the entire history of World War II, which is absolutely required.

In my opinion, you are trying to divorce reality from art, and therefore trying to say that films that are "not whole packages" are invalid artistic expressions, which I think is absurd.


Is the production of extreme emotions the mark of "success" for this movie? Personally I thought it was about situations out of control and the ability to function as a working human being in crisis mode. I think those are pretty universally human. If I hated the previous 80 or so minutes before the dramatic ending I wouldn't think of the film so highly.

That said, this film is not The Pianist and Schindler's List, but it is a historical drama and the fact that it is held up to some impossible standard is unfair. Who cares what format it needs to take as long as it communicates to the audience?

So you think if Holocaust was a fictional event and everyone knew it, the movie would have made the same impact?

I'd disagree that detailed knowledge of World War 2 is required to enjoy List or The Pianist. I mean seriously how many people have detailed knowledge of WW2? I'd guess 3%-4% at best. Those films appeal to basic human emotions that we can all understand.

I'm not saying that "films that are "not whole packages" are invalid artistic expressions". With United 93 I am saying it automatically assumes you have a deep empathy for the people/events which is shown, its a raw re-anactment which may work well now but I doubt that would be the case in 20-25 years.

Like I said I myself get emotional when I see Bloody Sunday mainly because I have a family member who was in Derry on that day but it would be wrong for me to authomatically assume that a person who has no real connection to the event to have the same reaction simply because the style of the movie makes its more difficult.

Short version. United 93 is to clinical an exercise for most to truly "enjoy" (I know thats not really the right word)

It requires a passible knowledge of Hitler's history and the history of the Third Reich. It requires an opinion.


So is Good Night, and Good Luck, or a film like Vera Drake or 1000 other films that are not really that difficult but slightly too challenging (or scary) for the general audience. I mean, I agree with the fact that The Pianist and Schindler's List (in this way) are much less challenging and far more manipulative than United 93. I'm just trying to understand why you think that, because United 93 doesn't have that aim, that it "shouldn't be considered oscar worthy", which however you word it, is essentially saying that it's an invalid artistic expression.

I strongly disagree with your claim that United 93 is basically an empty shell of a movie that people pour their emotions and feelings about 9/11 into.

I mean, it could be that you just didn't like the film or it didn't emotionally touch you. Which is completely fair. It doesn't mean your experience is the universal one.


Bloody Sunday, City of God, etc. all are great movies with moving stories and images that I have no personal opinion about that are somewhat cold but still brilliant. I see absolutely no reason why United 93 is being critisized other than the fact that it's about a specific incident that is more "well known". I see absolutely nothing stopping anybody from going in cold to United 93 in 30 years and it producing an emotional reaction or at least an interesting evaluation.

I just find United 93 to very cold and empty when all is said and done. I'm not saying it's a poor movie I did think it was worthy of an admission fee.
Its a brilliantly exacuted piece of celluloid, and does have a lot of courage in deviating from the standard Hollywood line.

Me and you have opposing views on its empty shell/not empty shell movie. It's a disagreement that I don't think can be proven in either favour. It's just personal choice I suppose, you say it is I say it isn't.

Why do I think its not Oscar worthy? Better movie's in the same style (I really overuse that word don't I) are around like "Threads" (fictional) or "Bloody Sunday" that expose shortcomings in United 93 like the uneven levels of acting and the very vague way it deals with the Terrorist characters. I'm slightly contridicting myself using the Bloody Sunday example but stepping back from it, its exacuted better and does expand on the event it depicts more. Hence I don't think it should get an oscar becuse it isn't even the best example in its class.

There is nothing "Invalid" about the movie it just doesn't cut it at the top level.

I quite enjoyed GNGL despite having no prior knowledge of Edward Morrow. Vera Drake I haven't seen but probably should considering the main actresses family hails from Mayo.

Uh oh. You just mentioned my favourite all time movie which completely FUBAR's my stance. Damn you're Brains Andaroo

Yes it is a movie that will provoke debate/evalution/emotion varying from strong to general indifference.......I just Fall on the indifferent side.

Perhaps the fact that I saw United 93 in the cinema while suffering a migraine didn't really help either. I'll re-watch it when the DVD comes out and see if my opinion stays the same.

Nope. Althou since they never would have been made then its a moot point in a way.

I'm totally cool with that

When it comes to U93, the only thing I'm not cool on it about is people hating on it because of what they fear other's hang ups about 9/11 are.

It's a politicalized film with very little political message (although there is some in there), but essentially, I don't see it as dishonest.

I deleted my post on the last page, but one of the things I wanted to say was that United 93 is going to have an advantage near the end of the year, which is well known people supporting it, just like Crash. If it's clear that the movie is in the race, Oprah will have the victims on her show, sick old Ebert will be going crazy over this movie and his condition will only give it more effect, the people who are following this race will be playing the importance card. Little Miss Sunshine at the end of the day is just about a light movie about a dysfunctional family, while U93 will be displayed as something more, it has the message. To quote loyal, Brokeback was more than a movie and Crash had something to say, U93 is going to get the same push. If you look at the two biggest contenders of 05, United 93 has more in common with them than any of the other movies.