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 Walk on Water *spoilers* 
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Extraordinary
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Post Walk on Water *spoilers*
Just saw the preview for this last week. Coincidentally I had just been informed about it the night before and it sounded interesting, so when I saw the trailer I said this is an opening weekend movie right here. There are no reviews coming in yet at RT, but here is the synopsis:

Two years after "Yossi and Jagger", American born, Israeli director Eytan Fox returns with "Walk on Water", a colorful and very contemporary road movie that takes its characters around Israel and later to Berlin. This unique movie, is a non traditional attempt to understand the role that is still played by the past in the lives of Israeli and German young people.

Israel's top film star Lior Ashkenzai ("Late Marriage") is the center of an international cast that includes German acclaimed actors Carola Ranier and Hans Tischler, Israeli Gideon Shemer and Palestinian Yousuf (Jo) Swaid, complete the international cast. Israeli Pop star Ivri Lider wrote the vibrant soundtrack that also contains a variety of songs by artists such as Esther Ofarim, Bruce Springsteen, Telepopmusic and Gigliola Cinquetti. -- © Lama Productions


Actually that's pretty weak. Here's the basic plot outline from imdb:

While on assignment in Berlin, a homophobic Israeli intelligence agent tasked with offing a Nazi war criminal has a crisis of consciousness after he befriends one of his target's gay grandson.

Its not going to be out for awhile clearly, but looking at Fox's past record with Yossi and Jagger which got 90% approval at RT (93% Cream of the Crop) it could be quite good. The trailer was not so great though, mediocre. But I worry about trailer marketing lately since I'm not sure these companies realize who they are trying to appeal to, so I don't take the trailers too seriously, just a little.


Last edited by dolcevita on Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:02 pm
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"Walk on Water" US offical site
http://www.walkonwaterthemovie.com


Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:57 pm
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http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/walk_on_water/

Damn, I walked by a theatre today and noticed it was already released (I'd forgotten) so I went to RT. It rotten, only 58% and 44% cream of the crop. That's unfortunate, I want to go see it next week, but the critics didn't like how dialogue heavy it was. Basically they said he used dialogue instead of film, and that there were many scenes that could have played out rather than be narrated. Sounds preechy maybe? Anyone heard anything about it? Doesn't seem like the content as much as the style was an issue, and I was really drawn to the storyline, so I'm going to [-o< and hope the critics have no idea what they are talking about as far as this movie goes.


Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:18 pm
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Well, I have to admit that when I read the title, 'Walk on Water', and learned that it's from Israel, I thought it would be on another subject matter, but a story about a homophobic Israeli agent and a homosexual German youth sounds intriguing enough.


I wonder, is the director gay? Or, is he known for gay films? I guess what I'm indirectly asking is whether the agent and the youth will end up doing it. I know that sounds like an odd question, but...does it make sense if I say that I'm curious? About them doing it, that is?

Oh my... I'm so glad this is a reserved and quiet forum :oops:

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Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:39 pm
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Well its quiet and reserved because you don't visit it enough... :wink: Tsk tsk, always causing controversey you are BIMPY.

j/k

As to your question, he hasn't done much. This is only his 6th entry in IMDB, and RT only has three for him. The only other one to reach massive international reach was the film he did most previously, Yossi and Jagger (2002) about two soldiers stationed on an outpost near the Lebenon border. It covers several relationshipds actually, but one of them is homosexual in nature. As to his own sexual orientation, I have no idea. Mostly, it doesn't matter because 1. Pedro isn't gay he still deals with camp, punk, and gay culture...basically alot of filmmakers that deal with homosexual content are humanists, not just gay themselves, and 2. I doubt it. I think they mean the agent is homophobic, not in the cloest, but tracing this guy day in and day out exposes him to certain experiences that may shatter his own myth/fears/etc.

My friend said growing up and in the army she only had one friend that was openly gay. Now this is not true in down-town Tel Aviv, but alot of Israeli culture still hasn't dealt with this issue, so there are many questions of exposure. I have no idea if this is the film's angle by the way, I'm just guessing in the typical agent covering someone type genre that the agent always "learns" alot about someone else's lifestyle. Now usually in the U.S. this involves a grown tough man learning about a 16 year old girl's life (or something like that, where the age and gender are the distinction). In this film it looks like its going to be about social identity, memory, history, and gender.


Sat Mar 05, 2005 10:10 pm
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By Pedro, do you mean Almodovar, dolcevita? I always imagined he was gay. Not because of his films necessarily, I just thought he was. Ditto for Alejandro Amenábar.

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Briefs. Am used to them and boxers can get me in trouble it seems. Too much room and maybe the silkiness have created more than one awkward situation.


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Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:32 pm
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box_2005 wrote:
By Pedro, do you mean Almodovar, dolcevita? I always imagined he was gay. Not because of his films necessarily, I just thought he was. Ditto for Alejandro Amenábar.


That's odd because I always got quite the opposite impression. I consider Almodovar to be the Andy Warhol of the cinema world in those aspects.

Boxie, Yossi and Jaguar got 90% approval over at RT, so I might try ot checkit out as well. For some reason I'm still drawn to this movie, so I'm going to go check out Walk on Water as soon as I can.


Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:47 pm
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*spoilers*

Well, I saw it today, and I have to say, it was quite good actually. I'm surprised how low the approval ratings amongst other reviewers were. It really tackled alot of larger issues, including collective memory (or the Holocaust) current gendered culture in Israel, and of course, Israel's handling of Palestine, all through the experiences of this one agent who's wife has just commited suicide and left him a scathing final note.

Rather than attack all the issues (which are far too complex) head on, and wrap up a nice little package, it explores the agent's inability to continue his role working for the government in the capacity that he does (an assasin).

Its quite subtle, and has humorous moments I relate to farely well considering my interations with Israel. Its quite intense near the end, when the Nazi he has been tracking actually shows up. I didn't think it would happen, but then the film resolves quite queitly, returning to the agent and his self-exploration.

Very good, full review to come,

A-

*end spoilers*


Last edited by dolcevita on Tue May 24, 2005 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue May 24, 2005 1:07 am
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Ever heard of the word "spoilers"? I didn't need to know that the Nazi shows up at the end, heh.

I liked the trailer. I first saw it with Sideways or Downfall. I can't remember...

You should've seen Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room for your weekday indie fix, though.


Tue May 24, 2005 3:13 pm
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Oh, sorry. :oops: It already says it happens in the write-ups, that's why i didn't really consider it a spoiler. This is a drama, not a mystery, so it's pretty explicitly stated in all the reviews I've read what happens. Its more an exploration of how the man reacts when it does happen. Sorry if I said too much, I'll put in a spoiler warning. I personally didn't think it was much of a spoiler, and pretty much assumed no one else would be watching this movie anyways.

I'm also going to drop in what I told Mike in the other thread here:

*spoilers*

dolcevita wrote:
Mike wrote:

Glad you liked it! I really want to see it. The reviews are really solid too.



RT 59 reviews, 40 fresh, 19 rotten. It was only 68% fresh and 64% cream of the crop. I do understand how people might not like this. I'm not above playing the relateabliltiy card. There is definately a personality and sense of humor I relate to having family and being there several times in my life. I think certain situations will go over people's heads, and will sound ruder than they are (not knowing the situation there). I also think this movie has a few problems, I just prefer someone trying to grapple with (and not fully succeeeding) bigger questions rather than thinking they have all the answers and just doing a neat little expository package. I've complained about that already in another movie this year.

Walk on Water deals pretty heavily with some of the racism towards Palestinians, but also has some pretty rough moments of commentary on suicide bombers and the Israeli mentality to them. Dealing with ex-nazi's is also very touchy. The agent speaks about how his mother came from Germany before the war, but Germany was never to be mentioned in the household, etc. I'd say that's even two or three generation removed and there is still a spectre of it today. Not with me and my siblings, but until three years ago (when my sister went to live there) Germany was never mentioned in our house around my mother. Even though she didn't directly go through it, her parents and grandparents did, and there was clearly some post-traumatic disorders. Its a very tough subject,, memory, even today. I related exceptionally strongly to how Water handled it. Especially Pia's discussions around her past boyfriend. When the nazi comes out of hiding (from Argentina) at the end, I almost freaked for some reason. I dunno, mostly because of the palpable tension Etan Fox built up around the subject. Israel is really on the border of letting it go (as is shown in the movie) but not quite being able to.

On a side note, its the first movie I've been to in ages where I didn't have to read the subtitles, except for when they were speaking in German that is. Most of it was a mix between Hebrew and English exchanges.


*end spoilers*


Tue May 24, 2005 3:16 pm
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dolcevita wrote:
Most of it was a mix between Hebrew and English exchanges

Hmm. Is the Hebrew present enough to consider the movie foreign? I know that some movies with characters who speak in English are still foreign films, but the trailer for Walk on Water made it seem like an American indie. Usually, marketers distinguish imports spoken in the English language (like It's All Gone Pete Tong or even Rory O'Shea Was Here) from other indies by advertising the awards they've received in unknown festivals. Walk on Water's trailer didn't have that, so I unconsciously assumed it was an American film.


Tue May 24, 2005 3:27 pm
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Nope, not like Rory. Its pretty much split 1/3 Hebrew, 1/3 German, 1/3 English. So between the three, a majority of the time is spoken in a non-English language with subtitles. He acts as two german's tour guide, and they can't speak Hewbrew well. So when he speaks directly to them, its in English. When they speak with eachother, it's German, and when he speaks to other Israeli's its in Hebrew.

Technically, I think this would even qualify as a "foreign movie" with the Academy, as the requirements are over 1/2 the movie must not be in English. Though it's cutting it close.

Very interesting. I hope you get a chance to see it and let me know what you think.


Tue May 24, 2005 3:45 pm
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I'll rent it on DVD.

Dolce, you know I'm not the abstract kind-of-guy. I'm more of a math person. Your grades are driving me crazy, though. I'm finding a different basis for each movie and each grade. Sometimes I find that you're picking at technical qualities (like pacing) or flaws in the story/message/etc. Then there's those other times where you don't even seem to consider those because there's something greater in the movie. Like, there's times where I think you've not liked a movie because it doesn't go "in-depth" enough. But then here, you claim that this is one of the movie's strengths:

dolcevita wrote:
Rather than attack all the issues (which are far too complex) head on, and wrap up a nice little package, it explores the agent's inability to continue his role working for the government in the capacity that he does (an assasin).


And all I want to ask is...: where's the consistency? Sometimes I wonder if you're focusing too much on the plot and trailer, thinking that each should be carried out in a particular way and that anything else would be too much or too little. I don't know...Don't take this as an attack. I just sometimes wish you wouldn't put the grade at the bottom. That way I could objectively read each review without trying to come up with a steady set of guidelines that defines your rational for each grade.

I know that each movie is different (in other words, don't internally think I'm narrow minded because of this...!). But, letter grades reflect this idea where we put all movies together in one big bag and then pick and choose the best and the worst.


Tue May 24, 2005 4:13 pm
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Nah, I try to grade according to genre, and success. So, if a movie is just supposed to be really fun, and I have fun, it'll get a decent grade. If the movie is trying to be *deep* and *profound* and botches, than it gets a bad one. This movie tried for the latter, and was fairly successful, hence the grade. I find profundity can't be wrapped up in a nice little package (the way "fun" can), so I don't mind films that struggle. I'd prefer a director who really tries to *explore* a situation, without giving final answers, even if it means the movie has technical flaws or is overwhelmed by its own content.

For risk of making this too heated, there is a treatment here of Palestine handling, which I prefer alot more to say, how Crash handled urban African-American racism. Basically, in Walk on Water, it comes up, and both sides are presented, but there's nothing conclusive in the scheme of a "grander" vision. Rather, Fox focuses on this one Agent's inability to continue approaching life the way he does. As an agent, he is responsible for assasinating a Hamas leader. He also "barters" very abbrassively with a Palestinian coat salesman in the shook once. He commments daily on the suicide bombings, and gets mad at the "condescending German" who asks why he thinks Palestinians do it. Says there's no logic to it, which in part, is true. But he refuses to acknowledge Israel's own handling of the situation. Something a Palestinian yells at him for part way through.

Its hard to explain how this film works for me to the A- level, but its because it was meant to indirectly explore Israeli psychology through this one agent's personal experiences and conclusions. It was successful in doing that, hence the high approval.

MC2 was meant to be a female buddy cop commedy, not some large existential probing of gender, so it was pretty decent too. Hence its B- from me (because it was good, but not that interesting.

Beauty Shop only got a C because for being a girl power comedy, it was neither that funnny, nor that feminist. And the plot was boring.

Gunner Palace got a C because in trying to acknowledge the situation of soldiers there, it didn't do much. It was so blaze about it, that the soldiers, nor their experiences are even memorable, nor did it in any way influence my sentiment towards the war one way or another. As a raw documentary form, it didn't do well, for its technical short comings and the lack of detail. Pretty much, it was thin any way you slice it.

Crash got a D because, well, it tried to explain rather than explore, and also was counterproductive to what it was even trying to explain.

I hope that clears things up a bit?


Tue May 24, 2005 6:02 pm
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Kind of...Maybe I should've clarified. I understand your reasons for giving films certain grades, but I don't always understand how it stacks up in comparison to everything else. That's what I mean when I talk about lack of consistency...

Would you say that's all you consider? If Walk on Water has bad pacing, or some technical issues, would you still give it an A-? Or, do you automatically go in expecting this type of vision that you liked?

I don't mean to call you out or anything (and, it should have been private anyways). I doubt anyone else has these problems or wants to mention them :lol:


Tue May 24, 2005 6:10 pm
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torrino wrote:
Kind of...Maybe I should've clarified. I understand your reasons for giving films certain grades, but I don't always understand how it stacks up in comparison to everything else. That's what I mean when I talk about lack of consistency...

Would you say that's all you consider? If Walk on Water has bad pacing, or some technical issues, would you still give it an A-? Or, do you automatically go in expecting this type of vision that you liked?

I don't mean to call you out or anything (and, it should have been private anyways). I doubt anyone else has these problems or wants to mention them :lol:


No, no problem. I don't mind explaining why I approved of this movie at all. Let me continue on to say, it had good pacing, and few technical issues. It also had great dialogue and acting. There were about two cheesy parts, but that's about it. So yeah, had this movie had such glaring technical problems that it ruined the plot, I wouldn't have given it such a high mark. But it was quite well executed, had enough emotional tension and suspense, and appropriately placed humor. Never put humor randomly into intense moments just to lighten them (which I can't stand). Had it kept cracking jokes right at emotional moments, etc, I would have lowered the grade regardless of my own personal affinity towards the message and content.

Uh, hope I'm making sense?


Last edited by dolcevita on Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue May 24, 2005 6:17 pm
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I've seen it.

Dolcevita and I had a great conversation about it in private, one that I don't wish to share.

I thought it said some interesting things, some which hit close to home.

I thought it was poorly paced and the acting was uneven.

It could have been better. In fact this is an instance where maybe a little extra melodrama would have been welcome.


Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:38 am
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Saw it, great film, I give it an A

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Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:22 pm
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andaroo wrote:
I've seen it.

Dolcevita and I had a great conversation about it in private, one that I don't wish to share.

I thought it said some interesting things, some which hit close to home.

I thought it was poorly paced and the acting was uneven.

It could have been better. In fact this is an instance where maybe a little extra melodrama would have been welcome.

Now that I've seen this, pretty please consider talking about it a little? I'm interesting on a bit of your perspective. I have lots to say, but I need an outlet. :smile:


Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:09 pm
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Well, in order not to derail the review thread, I will say here that i do not think Eyal was bi. I think he developed a very close relationship to Axel, where Axel taught him to "open up," and in return he kind of forced Axel to have to contend with the dark everyday. He was interested when he learned Axel was gay, but mostly in a "I"ve never even thought about it" kind of way. Not really out of distaste or personal interest. Dunno, that's just my reading, I guess.

da torri wrote:
I'll rent it on DVD.


Do so, and let me know what you thought.


Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:17 pm
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