I'm watching this on Starz for the first time in years right now and it's kind of hysterical to read my 15 year old self review this movie and show how much my opinion is changed.

I'm a HUGE Renthead. I saw the show on Broadway 12 times and it's one of my favorite shows (it was my favorite show until quite recently). I'm pretty convinced the only reason I loved it was because I didn't want to be disappointed and I refused to believe that I was disappointed because honestly, even though I didn't admit it at the time, things in the movie definitely bothered me. Maybe not as much as they do now, but a few things (like the changing of lyrics to dialogue without even changing the words and still having them rhyme.. Can you talk about lazy?) definitely did. There are many unneeded changes, some large, some almost insignificant and only a huge Rent buff would notice. The change between Maureen and Joanne? Really? Married? Please. Maureen would not get married and that whole bit is just ridiculous. The autotune? Please. This movie consisted mostly of seasoned Broadway actors. It shouldn't have been autotuned to the point that it was. Oh, and that brings me to the next thing, Rosario Dawson, please thank the computers for your "great" performance. Alright, now that I'm done ranting, it's not awful. Hell, it's even watchable, but it kind of hurts to know how great the movie could have been considering the source material.

This movie does NOT age well. What felt kind of dated in 2005 feels absurd now.

I watched like 15 minutes of this a few weeks back and man was it bad but Rosario was decent.

I thought it was pretty bad. I'm not sure what my grade was. I think it was a C-.

Rent is . And if Wicked is just spectacle pop fluff for the masses, you've obviously never even seen the Phantom of the Opera, so I don't know how it can be your favorite musical.

Uhh, I don't know what Wicked and Phantom of the Opera has to do with each other besides they are both long running tourist attractions and yes, I have seen both of them (multiple times). I don't really see your point. If you really want to go down that route, Rent had better reviews on Broadway than both Wicked and Phantom. It also received the Pulitzer Prize, which for obvious reasons, neither of the shows you have mentioned did.

And please, Wicked is a fluffy spectacle, as enjoyable as it is. If you think it's anything more than that, you're a bigger idiot than I thought you were. If you want to see art, see Next to Normal, Fun Home, Cabaret, The King & I, In the Heights, Hedwig and the Angry Inch, South Pacific, Hair, etc.

The Phantom of the Opera is a fluffy spectacle if Wicked is.

We seem to look for different things in a musical. You look for deep meaning, and I look for catchy tunes with a fun story. Just because something is not fine art does not mean it isn't good.

I don't like Rent because it is boring and only has 2 good songs (Seasons of Love and Take Me or Leave Me), and could have used a lot more subtlety, whereas Wicked has at least 50% good songs. I will admit that The Wizard and I, Dancing Through Life, As Long As You're Mine, Wonderful, and others kinda suck, but No One Mourns the Wicked, What is This Feeling?, Popular, One Short Day, Defying Gravity, Thank Goodness, No Good Deed, For Good, etc. are all great.

I'm not saying its not a fluffy spectacle. Obviously Wicked is not going to make you question your life. But the story is fun and creative (probably the most creative prequel I know), the music is good, and the characters are likable.

I will try to break this down for you.

First off, I fail to understand why you bumped this thread up just to quote something I said nearly three years ago.

Second off, yes, I do enjoy some meaning behind a show. That being said, I have never said that I disliked Wicked. I enjoy it. Fuck, I think I've seen it live five or six times (all on tour but whatever). It's very enjoyable. Phantom is also fluff and much less enjoyable than Wicked (and so much more tired - I saw it on Broadway back in 2012 and everyone was just sleep walking through their roles).

Third, there is nothing wrong with enjoying a show because it is entertaining and has catchy tunes. I've voiced my reasoning for not LOVING Wicked and it was not because of it being fluff, it was because the first act was bloated and the second was much, much better. Legally Blonde is one of my favorite musicals and it is total silly fluff but it pulls it off brilliantly and has a fantastic score.

Fourth, I don't know why you think I dislike so much theatre. As for Broadway shows, the only ones I've honestly HATED were The Addams Family, The Lion King and most recently, Violet. Everything else I have at least enjoyed (that I've seen on Broadway anyway).

Fifth, you are at the age where you should educate yourself on more musical theatre. There is so much out there that I'm sure you don't know about. Watch some videos of Chita Rivera, watch the Live! at Lincoln Center production of South Pacific starring the beautiful Kelli O'Hara and a wonderful before stardom Matthew Morrison, listen to some of the newer shows, Next to Normal and Fun Home are two of the best things I've ever seen on Broadway and I can't imagine anyone disliking them.

I brought it up because Brian said he would rent Magic Mike XXL on dvd, then Algren said he seemed like a rent boy, then I said Rent is terrible i hope there are no fans here trying to make a joke, then chippy gave me the link to this thread. I was very shocked that you said Phantom was the best musical, did you change your mind? Surprised you hated the Addams Family, I thought it was very enjoyable.

I said that when I was 15 years old, before I even saw the actual musical and was saying that based only on the movie (same with Rent, which is vastly different from the film version). I still enjoy the movie version on a campy entertainment level.

Wow, the musical is worse than the movie? Good god.

"Wicked" is mediocre. "Rent" is mediocre. End of discussion (and yes, ignore any posts I made here back in 2005 )

What about Phantom, Thompsoncory?

I'm done trying to have a conversation and reason with someone with the mentality of a second grader.

I was done w/ u first, hence my addressing of someone else.

It's fine but I haven't seen it in years (both the movie and the show).

I saw "Wicked" on Broadway like two or three years ago and it's fine for what it is - complete tourist fluff.

Already established.