The original TT had the two extended cuts plus the theatrical ROTK. Even though I've seen the films repeatedly, I would still demand silence during the screening.

I love the Alamo Drafthouse, they're also doing a Kill Bill screening with QT in attendance.

http://www.originalalamo.com/downtown/f ... ow_id=4106

quentin tarantino live in person to present
KILL BILL: THE UNSEEN, UNCENSORED FULL-LENGTH CUT
DIR. Quentin Tarantino,2004, 35mm, 245 min, NR
Downtown October 14, 10:00 PM

By the new millennium, film had turned away from two-fisted, white-knuckled exploitation-fueled entertainment. Hollywood's toughs were on the decline as they became gentler action heroes with a renewed conscience regarding violence. Enter: The Bride. Tarantino and Thurman's vengeance-hungry lady warrior got our hearts racing (and blood spraying) in no time, just like the good old days...only better, with all the cinematic glory of ultramodern effects work and QT�s distinctly bold signature. Equal parts revenge picture, martial arts epic and something entirely new, KILL BILL blew away audiences internationally and brought widespread attention to genres of film often only appreciated by hardcore enthusiasts. A tribute to all things fun on film, the action masterpiece is now being presented in its purest form: an uncut, uncompromised, viciously exciting 245-minute version, with every scene (including the infamous House of Blue Leaves showdown) now in full, blazing color. This rare screening is sure to be one of the most intensely satisfying movie experiences you're likely to have. Ever.

ROTK extended sucked ass.

There, I said it.

I don't disagree with you guys; the EE's were not as good as the ultra loonies make out. I take a middle ground. I would say that only about 5-10 minutes of each EE could have gone into the theatrical version; most of it (I thought) badly needed exposition. The rest should have stayed on the cutting room floor.

I have a list of what to put back in, but won't inflict it on you.

Totally agree. Made me like the film a little less.

Towers EE is much much better than theatricl though.

I enjoy bits of levity so I was happy with the drinking game.

Okay...

Yeah, I don't like that scene with the Army of the Dead taking over the Corsair ships. I'm surprised they even filmed it. The whole idea was that Aragorn's arrival was supposed to be a surprise. On the whole, the exact order of the events at the Pelennor battle, as all the respective armies show up one after the other, is Tolkien's strongest writing. PJ cut it rather differently, and it's much weaker. For example, I hated cutting that Eowyn/Witch King battle in half. And for geeky book reasons, the King of the Dead and the Witch King should never have been on the same battlefield.

Anyway, this is off the top of my head, so be gentle:

EE stuff to add into FotR:

• The 10 seconds where Isildur puts on the Ring and disappears.
• Aragorn's tiny scene at the gravesite of his mother -- helps to establish Aragorn as the last possible king.
• A little more of the Elven gift-giving scene -- at least to explain the elven bread and cloaks, which show up in TTT.
• In the theatrical cut there's a very cool scene where Legolas shoots three orcs with three arrows. In the EE, he shoots seven. I would have loved for the full seven shots to be in the theatrical cut.

TTT suffers the most. Add into TTT:

• Saruman orders his orcs to cut down the forest and dam the river to fuel his armies of war. -- so later, when Treebeard sees the cleared forest, and then says to "free the river," we've at least seen a cleared forest and a dammed river.
• The "find the king's son" scene with Eomer, but that's optional.
• Faramir finding Boromir's body in the boat.
• A shortened version of Faramir's flashback to Boromir at Osgiliath.
• The end of the Helm's Deep battle, the scene where the Orcs are eaten by the Trees. Showing a few Orcs running away wouldn't cut it, sorry.
• Faramir leading Frodo Sam and Gollum through the sewers to get out of Osgiliath.

Can you tell I'm a Faramir fan? And yeah, that's a lot to put in, but to make up for it I would take out about 1/2 of the the Arwen kissy, the Galadriel/Elrond cell phone call, and that god-awful Samwise voiceover montage of puke.

Add into RotK:

• I'm torn over the Saruman death scene. It would be nice to have closure on Saruman, but the scene is crappily acted, and honestly it's crappily adapted from the book. I would probably leave it out.
• There's a scene that was in the trailer, but not in either cut. There's a discussion with Arwen and Elrond about her fate, involving the book. The fans think it resolves the whole "grace" plot, and mentions the Paths of the Dead. I would like to have seen that.
• Aragorn showing his sword to Sauron in the Palantir -- the whole "taking the bait" thing.
• Frodo and Sam throwing away their armor and backpacks.

I must have forgotton a couple, but the additions to RotK were just ego-PJ filler. Drinking game? Blech. And if I want to see somebody say "game over," I'll go rent Aliens.

I absolutely love the Osgiliath scenes, especially not knowing much about Faramir and his role in the saga as I havnt read the books (but love the films).

* Reasons why the King of the Dead and The Witch King couldnt be on the same battlefield? (I thought they played down the Wicth King in the final duel - even though they played him up somewhat before. It was anti-climactic.)

* Also what happened of his threat of "I will break him" in reference to Gandalf?

* How was the whole Pelennor battle played out in the book (vs the film)? As you said this was JRRT's best writing.

Thanks

Absolutely. It's a joy to remember all this and dip back into that amazing fanhood for a while.

Faramir

Faramir is THE MAN. He's much more perfect in the books that in the movie, and the kind of man that all those geeks that play D&D dream about being. Faz gets pages and pages of monologue in Henneth Annuin (the cave with the waterfall). The Osgiliath flashback is one of the things that PJ did VERY well. It's only mentioned briefly in the books. The City of Osgiliath straddled the river, and Gondor and Mordor fought over it for years, which is why it was in ruins. During the same summer that Frodo had the ring in the Shire (FotR), Faramir and Boromir managed to break the last bridge over the river, which separated the city in half. They had to give up one side, but held the other side. The flashback in TTT is the victory celebration after that battle. We fanboys labeled it as: "It's Miller Time!" Of course then Boromir is sent to Rivendell to ask Elrond about that dream he had. Boromir arrives at Rivendell just when the wounded Frodo does (FotR). Then later, in RotK, the Mordor forces strike back in Osgiliath, and put down a new bridge, and you see the armies marching over it.

The Events at Minas Tirith, including Witch King:

From what I can remember, here's what happens in the BOOK. It might not be exact:

1. Aragorn goes into the Mountains and is just about to meet to the King of the Dead. you don't know if the King of the Dead is going to fight with the good guys or kill them.
2. Theoden starts his ride to Minas Tirith (with Eowyn and Merry tagging along)
3. Gandalf and Pippin, already in Minas Tirith, deal with Denethor the Nutcase.
4. Pippin, being in the service of Denethor, does watch duty on the walls of Minas Tirith.
5. The Darkness blots out the sun.
6. During their ride, Merry/Eowyn/Theoden have to navigate an semi-evil forest to get around a separate Orc army. (not in the movie at all.)
7. Osgiliath is attacked. Gandalf rescues Faramir.
8. Denethor yells at Faramir for letting the ring go with Frodo, that "witless halfling."
9. Faramir goes back out to defend the fields -- basically a suicide mission.
10. Gandalf takes charge of the Gondorian army.
11. Faramir is wounded and brought back to Minas Tirith.
12. Siege of Minas Tirith, very depressing. Heads fly, armies assemble outside the walls.
13. Pippen, as Denethor's personal page, watches Denethor go even more nuts as he fret over his son Faramir.
14. The Black Riders screech around, driving the soldiers mad. The Bad Guys are winning.
15. Meanwhile, Denethor grabs Faramir to burn them on that pyre. Pippin goes off to find Gandalf. He finds Gandalf, just when...
16. The battering ram breaks the Gate. The Witch King rides in alone and confronts Gandalf.
17. Witch King is just about to battle Gandalf when he hears horns. [I don't think there's an "I will break him" in the books.]
18. By this time, you're so involved with Pippin and Gandalf that you've totally forgotton about the horns, which signal that...
19. The Riders of Rohan have arrived! and the movie is very close to the book on this.
20. Gandalf and Pippin leave the Gate to go save Faramir. Faramir is saved; Denethor commits suicide.
21. Lots of soldiers go mad with fear and are laid in the Houses of Healing, including Faramir.
22. The Rohan army cuts through the middle of the Orc army. Elephant army shows up. Begin elephant battle.
23. Theoden manages to kill the king of Elephant army. Battle is going well for a while.
24. Witch King shows up and kills Theoden. (btw, a LOT of this goes on simultaneously. Theoden and Denethor actually die within minutes of each other.) Battle is not going so well.
25. Eowyn and Merry do their thing all at once. Witch King dies. Eowyn cries over Theoden. Battle is going better.
26. Rohan realizes that even their 6000 horses are just not enough to ovecome the thousands and thousands of orcs.
27. More despair writing. Battle is going badly.
28. Suddenly, everybody on the walls of Minas Tirith look out and see the Corsair ships coming up to the docks. They think they are really screwed.
29. Eomer finds Eowyn not quite dead yet, sees the pirate ships, and starts screaming Death. Then Eomer looks close and sees.......
30. ...The first pirate ship unfurls its banner, and the banner is black with the Tree and the Stars. Thus came Aragorn son of Arathorn, borne on the wind from the sea, with reinforcements.
31. (I'll talk about the "reinforcements" in a second.) Once Aragorn shows up, Tolkien just assumes Aragorn and Eomer mop up. The Battle of the Pelennor Fields is largely a matter of who shows up when.
32. LATER, Legolas recalls the "What say you" scene between Aragorn and the Dead, as a flashback.

That's a loooooooooong time to go without seeing Aragorn. You're so busy with the Pippin Gandalf Faramir Denethor Witch King Theoden Eowyn Merry, battle going good, battle going bad, battle going good, battle going bad, battle going REALLY bad, that you have completely forgotten about Aragorn, and I mean completely. I truly thought that the feeble Rohan army was ALL that was left of the good guys, and they were going to lose, and then when the Corsiars showed up, I was all like Game over man! Game over!

So the first time I read Aragorn unfurling that banner on the ship, I burst into tears. In the movie, it's not nearly as good, but still not too bad because it does retain most of the surprise. But in the EE, PJ ruins it entirely by intercutting between Aragorn and Minas Tirith! What good is it if you're constantly reminded? So what if the good guys are losing. You know Aragorn is coming up the river. Heck, you even know that the King of the Dead has agreed join Aragorn. Sucks.

Tolkien does the exact opposite of intercutting, just to preserve this surprise. This is one reason why LotR was considered unfilmable. It's not just that you need CGI for all the monsters. Tolkien uses chronology as a literary device. Great for surprises, but very difficult to adapt to a film plot that an audience can understand.


Witch King vs. King of the Dead:

There are two reasons these two never meet. First, in the book, the Dead never go to the Minas Tirith. In the books, we know that there are thousands of Gondorians from the countryside trying to get to the capital city, Minas Tirith, to reinforce it. Aragorn, with the Dead, find the Corsairs locked in battle with those Gondorian reinforcements. The Dead overthrow the Corsairs, and Aragorn lets the Dead go right there. Aragorn then takes the boats and puts the Gondorian reinforcements on the boats and sails to Minas Tirith. Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh, in their condensation of the story, wisely combined the Dead and the reinforcements to make it simpler and more exciting. Most of the fans, except for purists like Bradley Witherberry, have no problem with that. However...

The second reason: In the books, and briefly in the movie, the prophesy is that "no living man" can kill the Witch King. The King of the Dead is not living, he's a cursed green dead guy. So, technically, HE could kill the Witch King. This really saps the accomplishment of Eowyn and Merry, both of whom are "living," but not "men." In the books, there is never this conflict because the Dead never get to the battle. But even with the Dead there, PJ could have avoided this by finishing the Eowyn battle before Aragorn and the Dead get there. But because he intercut it, it's confusing. The audience sees that the King of the Dead was there, and hey, he's not living. Why didn't Eowyn just wait for His Green Majesty to cross the field and take care of Witch King with a lot less risk?

It all hinges on that word "living." Yes yes, even though it's only one word, it's a BIG deal to fans. That's why they're called geeks. (if you really want to dig into geek arguements over the way something is worded, try asking an LotR Loonie if a Balrog has wings. )


I hope that helps.

ROTK extended sucked ass.

There, I said it.