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 Der Untergang (Downfall) 
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Post Der Untergang (Downfall)
In my fall vacation that have unfortunately ended about a week ago, I finally took some time to check out this German blockbuster and I have to say that I was impressed. VERY IMPRESSED.

To be honest, I have never been partial to German cinema. I find one of Germany's worldwide most acclaimed movies, Lola Rennt (a.k.a. Run Lola Run) incredibly overrated. It doesn't offer anything all-too innovative or distintive to me, but much rather the movie looks like an over-long MTV clip. Even most Germans you'd find only would admit that German cinema hasn't exactly been very productive regarding good qualitiy movies in the recent years. Though there were some big blockbusters produced over here (like (T)Raumschiff Surprise: Periode I and Der Schuh des Manitu), all of this movies have been nothing, but some Hollywood-like cheap slapstick humor with popular TV comedians which made these movies so successful. Therefore, I usually don't see more than one German movie in theatres within a year, tops and I can't remember myself anticipating any German movie coming out.

Well this has changed a couple of months ago when I heard about Der Untergang (Downfall). Der Untergang tells about the last days in the life of Hitler (amazingly portrayed by Bruno Ganz) as well as the last 18 days of the occupation of Berlin during World War II. The whole movie is told from the perspective of Hitler's young female secretary, Traudl Junge (played by Germany's shooting star Alexandra Maria Lara) who stays with Hitler in his bunker during his final days even though she is not partial to national-socialism. The movie is based on Traudl Junge's biography as well as a famous book by Joachim Fest called "Inside Hitler's Bunker". It portrays the happenings inside of Fuehrer's bunker during the last days of his life and shows the insanity and the delusion of this man which really came to light during his last days. Especially one scene sticks in my mind when Hitler tells to his remaining generals his newest strategic plans even though the armies that he names don't even exist.

On the other hand this movie shows the devotedness of many people to their Fuehrer even though there was no chance for a victory anymore, people still believed in him even though he abandoned his own nation in the end. The movie shows the suffering of the people in Berlin caused by Hitler's refusal to capitulate. It shows how some people, even those out of Hitler's closest circles came to realize that he is nothing more than an insane monster who doesn't even care about his own nation. In a poignant scene of the movie Hitler says something in the vein of "They shall (the nation) drown in their own blood. I won't cry even a single tear because of that. They failed, they disappointed and now they shall go down with me because they don't deserve it any differently".

I have seen previews of this movie and it looked amazing, especially for a German production. With the budget of around $17 million it is the most expensive pure German production of all time and it really looks like it too. It has also been getting splendid reviews over here and it has been a huge hit, holding on to the top spot of the box-office for 4 weeks straight (it even made more in its 2nd and 3rd weekend than it did in its first).

Finally I decided to go and check it out and I have to say that I was stunned. This is easily one of the best movies of the years. It ranks as my 4th favorite movie of the year (I give it a straight A or 9/10), but it is probably the best movie I have seen this year so far. It is really superb and definitely oscar-worthy. I will be extremely surprised if the movie doesn't receive a nomination for the Best Foreign Picture at next year's Academy Awards. Personally, I think that if it was a Hollywood movie it would DEFINITELY receive over 8 Oscar nominations. The movie would definitely deserve at least that much. Der Untergang stars the creme de la creme of German cinema, including Bruno Ganz, Alexandra Maria Lara, Ulrich Noethen, Juliane Köhler, Thomas Kretschmann, Heino Ferch, Corinna Harfouch and many others. The acting is amazing by each member of the cast. The production values or no worse than of a huge Hollywood blockbuster. The occupation of Berlin has been portrayed very well and authentic.

What really sticks out about this movie however is Bruno Ganz as the Nazi dictator Hitler. After having seen him as Hitler I honestly cannot imagine anyone else ever playing Hitler as well as he could pull it off. The looks, the accent and the acting was just pitch-perfect. Not only he manages to show off Hitler's insanity and pure evil, but he also gives Hitler a human side, something we haven't really seen in movies. (don't worry, you still won't have much sympathy with him). He definitely deserves an Oscar nod for his role and if it was an American movie he sure would have gotten one. His performance is invloving, moving and so authentic that you really believe seeing Hitler on-screen.

Technically the movie is just as amazing. The cinematography is astounding as well as sound ad editing of the movie. The art design is superb.

The movie is not flawless for sure, but it comes close enough. Some things in the movie seems a bit unrealistic and far-fetched. Also this movie with its length of around 2 1/2 hours drags a little bit in its last 30 minutes. Basically after Hitler's suicide it loses some of its steam as Bruno Ganz does to this movie what Johnny Depp did to Pirates of the Caribbean. Other than that I don't have many complaints about this movie and most of the flaws are minor enough to be overseen.

This movie is great and with the possible exception of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly it ranks as my ALL-TIME FAVORITE FOREIGN MOVIE. This movie is a classic and a milestone of German cinema that will be remembered for many years to come. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND EVERYONE TO SEE IT IF THEY GET A CHANCE TO!

Here is the IMDB site of the movie (with a great 8.3/10 score):

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363163/


Your beloved Doctor ;)

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Last edited by Dr. Lecter on Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:26 pm, edited 5 times in total.



Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:25 pm
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Post Re: Der Untergang (Downfall) - Astounding movie!
Dr. Lecter wrote:
In my fall vacation that have unfortunately ended about a week ago, I finally took some time to check out this German blockbuster and I have to say that I was impressed. VERY IMPRESSED.

To be honest, I have never been partial to German cinema. I find one of Germany's worldwide most acclaimed movies, Lola Rennt (a.k.a. Run Lola Run) incredibly overrated. It doesn't offer anything all-too innovative or distintive to me, but much rather the movie looks like an over-long MTV clip. Even most Germans you'd find only would admit that German cinema hasn't exactly been very productive regarding good qualitiy movies in the recent years. Though there were some big blockbusters produced over here (like (T)Raumschiff Surprise: Periode I and Der Schuh des Manitu), all of this movies have been nothing, but some Hollywood-like cheap slapstick humor with popular TV comedians which made these movies so successful. Therefore, I usually don't see more than one German movie in theatres within a year, tops and I can't remember myself anticipating any German movie coming out.


Yes. I have to agree with you on such films as Lola, and even Tin Drum, Das Bot, and Herzog's films. I have a tendency to interpret German film as being very exterior and expository. Perhaps this is where some may argue for its "Austerity?" German cinema has for a long time dealt with heavy topics such as violence, alientation, modernity, war, etc, but has always had the needs to place individuals depression or mental ambiguity and apathy on the exterior of the characters. When Kaspar Houser is confused, he has to talk about it, and his face has to read *confused* and he has to prove a rock doesn't stop, etc. Its like the directors have to make sure the audience *gets* it. What this does is make alot of the films seem heavy handed and boring. The little boy in Tin Drum has to narrate everything. And when he's interested in sex the director had to show him trying to go down on his babysitter, instead of just having him kind of stare at her confused in his own responses to her. It makes for a weak watch and an even weaker post film discussion. Everything is stated soooo explicitly.

Dr. Lecter wrote:
Well this has changed a couple of months ago when I heard about Der Untergang (Downfall). Der Untergang tells about the last days in the life of Hitler (amazingly portrayed by Bruno Ganz) as well as the last 18 days of the occupation of Berlin during World War II. The whole movie is told from the perspective of Hitler's young female secretary, Traudl Junge (played by Germany's shooting star Alexandra Maria Lara) who stays with Hitler in his bunker during his final days even though she is not partial to national-socialism. The movie is based on Traudl Junge's biography as well as a famous book by Joachim Fest called "Inside Hitler's Bunker". It portrays the happenings inside of Fuehrer's bunker during the last days of his life and shows the insanity and the delusion of this man which really came to light during his last days. Especially one scene sticks in my mind when Hitler tells to his remaining generals his newest strategic plans even though the armies that he names don't even exist.


Wow! This sounds like it could be very rich. I know that over 2 years ago, a documentary came out called "Hitler's Secretary," and she's been gaining in media and scholarly attention in the past few years. She was pretty much privy to everything that went on, but die to the nature of her position, was always relegated to a second-hand position. I wonder if this film is not just a motivation from the literature, but also from the documentary almost two years ago? Did it use archival footage in this new film? If so than I am definately interested. I had a strong tendency towards it when I watched Open City as well, because I think doco-dramas can be a very intense experience of weaving the past and modern interpretations of the past together.

Dr. Lecter wrote:
On the other hand this movie shows the devotedness of many people to their Fuehrer even though there was no chance for a victory anymore, people still believed in him even though he abandoned his own nation in the end. The movie shows the suffering of the people in Berlin caused by Hitler's refusal to capitulate. It shows how some people, even those out of Hitler's closest circles came to realize that he is nothing more than an insane monster who doesn't even care about his own nation. In a poignant scene of the movie Hitler says something in the vein of "They shall (the nation) drown in their own blood. I won't cry even a single tear because of that. They failed, they disappointed and now they shall go down with me because they don't deserve it any differently".

I have seen previews of this movie and it looked amazing, especially for a German production. With the budget of around $17 million it is the most expensive pure German production of all time and it really looks like it too. It has also been getting splendid reviews over here and it has been a huge hit, holding on to the top spot of the box-office for 4 weeks straight (it even made more in its 2nd and 3rd weekend than it did in its first).


Who is the director? Have any of his other films reached over here? That I might be familiar with his past works?

Dr. Lecter wrote:
Finally I decided to go and check it out and I have to say that I was stunned. This is easily one of the best movies of the years. It ranks as my 4th favorite movie of the year (I give it a straight A or 9/10), but it is probably the best movie I have seen this year so far. It is really superb and definitely oscar-worthy. I will be extremely surprised if the movie doesn't receive a nomination for the Best Foreign Picture at next year's Academy Awards. Personally, I think that if it was a Hollywood movie it would DEFINITELY receive over 8 Oscar nominations. The movie would definitely deserve at least that much. Der Untergang stars the creme de la creme of German cinema, including Bruno Ganz, Alexandra Maria Lara, Ulrich Noethen, Juliane Köhler, Thomas Kretschmann, Heino Ferch, Corinna Harfouch and many others. The acting is amazing by each member of the cast. The production values or no worse than of a huge Hollywood blockbuster. The occupation of Berlin has been portrayed very well and authentic...

This movie is great and with the possible exception of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly it ranks as my ALL-TIME FAVORITE FOREIGN MOVIE. This movie is a classic and a milestone of German cinema that will be remembered for many years to come. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND EVERYONE TO SEE IT IF THEY GET A CHANCE TO!

Your beloved Doctor ;)


Dottore, did you catch "Nowhere in Africa" when it came out in 2003? It was also a German film, done by a female director (whose name escapes me at the moment) and you might find it a nice compliment in the scheme of WWII related films. It is definately the other side of the spectrum from this film you just saw. It's about a Jewish family that is sent to Africa to escape, and how they deal with questions of detachment, alienation, and re-association during the war. On an interesting note, the film ends on questions of identity and also investment in post-reconstruction Germany. I think you might find it interesting.

Thanks for the recommendation, that amount of thought and insight is incredible, and I'm going to keep my eyes open for when it reaches the states, though if it only just came out now, I have a sneaking suspicion it won't get released here for a looooooooong time.

-Dolce


Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:50 pm
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Post Re: Der Untergang (Downfall) - Astounding movie!
dolcevita wrote:
Yes. I have to agree with you on such films as Lola, and even Tin Drum, Das Bot, and Herzog's films. I have a tendency to interpret German film as being very exterior and expository. Perhaps this is where some may argue for its "Austerity?" German cinema has for a long time dealt with heavy topics such as violence, alientation, modernity, war, etc, but has always had the needs to place individuals depression or mental ambiguity and apathy on the exterior of the characters. When Kaspar Houser is confused, he has to talk about it, and his face has to read *confused* and he has to prove a rock doesn't stop, etc. Its like the directors have to make sure the audience *gets* it. What this does is make alot of the films seem heavy handed and boring. The little boy in Tin Drum has to narrate everything. And when he's interested in sex the director had to show him trying to go down on his babysitter, instead of just having him kind of stare at her confused in his own responses to her. It makes for a weak watch and an even weaker post film discussion. Everything is stated soooo explicitly.


Yeah, I have to agree here. I haven't seen Das Boot (even though I heard that it is great) and I wasn't particulary impressed with Tin Drum, but in comparison to what German cinema brings out nowadays these movies are utter masterpieces. I mean Germany starts re-hashing American Pie-formula in their movies and it's just....ugh.



dolcevita wrote:
Wow! This sounds like it could be very rich. I know that over 2 years ago, a documentary came out called "Hitler's Secretary," and she's been gaining in media and scholarly attention in the past few years. She was pretty much privy to everything that went on, but die to the nature of her position, was always relegated to a second-hand position. I wonder if this film is not just a motivation from the literature, but also from the documentary almost two years ago? Did it use archival footage in this new film? If so than I am definately interested. I had a strong tendency towards it when I watched Open City as well, because I think doco-dramas can be a very intense experience of weaving the past and modern interpretations of the past together.


It has Traudl Junge's voiceover in the first 2 minutes of the movie and another 2 minutes of documentary footage of her in her old age at the very end of the movie, but that's about it, as for documentary footage. The whole movie is based on her auot-biography and Joachim Fest's book.





dolcevita wrote:
Who is the director? Have any of his other films reached over here? That I might be familiar with his past works?


As far as I know, the director has directed one big movie before which was also popular overseas, "Das Experiment" (The Experiment). His name is Oliver Hirschbiegel. The screenwriter and producer of this movie, Bernd Eichinger, is one of Germany's biggest producers nowadays. He has produced Nowhere in Africa, Resident Evil, Smilla's Sense of Snow, The NeverEnding Story and many other movies.


dolcevita wrote:
Dottore, did you catch "Nowhere in Africa" when it came out in 2003? It was also a German film, done by a female director (whose name escapes me at the moment) and you might find it a nice compliment in the scheme of WWII related films. It is definately the other side of the spectrum from this film you just saw. It's about a Jewish family that is sent to Africa to escape, and how they deal with questions of detachment, alienation, and re-association during the war. On an interesting note, the film ends on questions of identity and also investment in post-reconstruction Germany. I think you might find it interesting.

Thanks for the recommendation, that amount of thought and insight is incredible, and I'm going to keep my eyes open for when it reaches the states, though if it only just came out now, I have a sneaking suspicion it won't get released here for a looooooooong time.

-Dolce


I have heard a lot of Nowhere in Africa, but didn't come around to see it yet. The director's name is Caroline Link, methinks. I was very (pleasantly) surprised that this movie won the Best Foreign Picture award at the Oscars. I will definitely check it out one day, but considering the enormous length of my "to see"-list this "one day" might be a bit far away, hehe.

I really hope you'll get to see Der Untergang one day. It is a really powerful and well-made movie. Considering its great success over here as well as in Austria, my hopes are that it won't take too long for it to come out overseas.

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Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:18 pm
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All I want to say is that I absolutely agree with Arthur! Der Untergang deserves at least an oscar nomination for Best Foreign Film! To be honest, I would compare it to The Pianist (in terms of quality)!

9/10 or 9.5/10 points for this one! :)


Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:17 pm
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Samweis Gamdschie wrote:
All I want to say is that I absolutely agree with Arthur! Der Untergang deserves at least an oscar nomination for Best Foreign Film! To be honest, I would compare it to The Pianist (in terms of quality)!

9/10 or 9.5/10 points for this one! :)


Uh-oh...I disliked The Pianist. I thought it was the most overrated film of that year. :(

-Dolce


Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:44 pm
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dolcevita wrote:
Samweis Gamdschie wrote:
All I want to say is that I absolutely agree with Arthur! Der Untergang deserves at least an oscar nomination for Best Foreign Film! To be honest, I would compare it to The Pianist (in terms of quality)!

9/10 or 9.5/10 points for this one! :)


Uh-oh...I disliked The Pianist. I thought it was the most overrated film of that year. :(

-Dolce


REALLY? It was my 2nd favorite movie of that year. Personally, I even liked The Pianist slightly more than Der Untergang.

However...

The movies are very different. The Pianist often heavily plays with the sentimental notes of the movie. Der Untergang is not sentimental, but much more of a "sober reality" movie. I really think you'd like it.

Besides that, even though I liked Brody's performance in The Pianist, Bruno Ganz is much better as Hitler in Der Untergang.

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Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:49 pm
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Dr. Lecter wrote:
dolcevita wrote:

Uh-oh...I disliked The Pianist. I thought it was the most overrated film of that year. :(

-Dolce


REALLY? It was my 2nd favorite movie of that year. Personally, I even liked The Pianist slightly more than Der Untergang.

However...

The movies are very different. The Pianist often heavily plays with the sentimental notes of the movie. Der Untergang is not sentimental, but much more of a "sober reality" movie. I really think you'd like it.

Besides that, even though I liked Brody's performance in The Pianist, Bruno Ganz is much better as Hitler in Der Untergang.


The fact that they are even depicting Hitler makes this a far more challenging movie. That sentimentalism you mentioned hits the nail on the spot. At one point it is useless, repetetive, cliche, and lacks creativity. The generic digital bombed out streets were gimmickly and unconvincing, and, btw, the woman in the blue dress was just a rehash of Schindler's girl in the red one. Its like Polanski couldn't even come up with new visuals.

I really do think, from what I've heard of you description, that I'll be far more receptive to Der Untergang than I was to Pianist.

-Dolce


Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:57 pm
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dolcevita wrote:
Dr. Lecter wrote:
dolcevita wrote:

Uh-oh...I disliked The Pianist. I thought it was the most overrated film of that year. :(

-Dolce


REALLY? It was my 2nd favorite movie of that year. Personally, I even liked The Pianist slightly more than Der Untergang.

However...

The movies are very different. The Pianist often heavily plays with the sentimental notes of the movie. Der Untergang is not sentimental, but much more of a "sober reality" movie. I really think you'd like it.

Besides that, even though I liked Brody's performance in The Pianist, Bruno Ganz is much better as Hitler in Der Untergang.


The fact that they are even depicting Hitler makes this a far more challenging movie. That sentimentalism you mentioned hits the nail on the spot. At one point it is useless, repetetive, cliche, and lacks creativity. The generic digital bombed out streets were gimmickly and unconvincing, and, btw, the woman in the blue dress was just a rehash of Schindler's girl in the red one. Its like Polanski couldn't even come up with new visuals.

I really do think, from what I've heard of you description, that I'll be far more receptive to Der Untergang than I was to Pianist.

-Dolce


I figured that it was the sentimental part of the movie that you didn't like. It REALLY clicked with me, though. The scene with the involving the old man who couldn't stand up (I am sure, you know which one I am talking about) really hit my nerve. The whole theatre gasped for air in that scene...

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Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:24 pm
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Dr. Lecter wrote:

I figured that it was the sentimental part of the movie that you didn't like. It REALLY clicked with me, though. The scene with the involving the old man who couldn't stand up (I am sure, you know which one I am talking about) really hit my nerve. The whole theatre gasped for air in that scene...


Yes, I do know what you're talking about. In the wheelchair...I just saw that as shock value. You have to understand though, I grew up listening to this all the time. So it pretty much just felt like every generic Holocaust memorial I've been dragged to over the years.

-Dolce


Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:33 pm
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dolcevita wrote:
Dr. Lecter wrote:

I figured that it was the sentimental part of the movie that you didn't like. It REALLY clicked with me, though. The scene with the involving the old man who couldn't stand up (I am sure, you know which one I am talking about) really hit my nerve. The whole theatre gasped for air in that scene...


Yes, I do know what you're talking about. In the wheelchair...I just saw that as shock value. You have to understand though, I grew up listening to this all the time. So it pretty much just felt like every generic Holocaust memorial I've been dragged to over the years.

-Dolce


Well, the movie just worked for me. I preferred it over all other oscar nominees that year (even though I liked Chicago as well as TTT very much). It also helped me that I didn't have Schindler's List in my fresh memory anymore.

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Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:38 pm
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Hey, guys, I submitted this review to AICN and take a look...

http://www.aintitcool.com/


:)

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Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:16 pm
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Newmarket Films= US distributor of "The Passion of the Christ"

http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout ... egoryid=13
Posted: Tue., Dec. 7, 2004, 12:49pm PT

Momentum's 'Down' in U.K.

Pic sold over 20 territories, including North America

By ED MEZA


BERLIN -- Momentum Pictures has picked up U.K. rights for Oliver Hirschbiegel's Adolf Hitler drama "Downfall."
It's the last major territory sale for the pic, which has been submitted for Oscar and BAFTA consideration.

EOS Distribution/Beta Cinema, which is handling international sales, has sold "Downfall" in more than 20 territories including North America, where it was picked up by Newmarket Films.

Momentum has not set a release date for the film, currently in theaters in the Netherlands and Poland. TFM is releasing "Downfall" in France on Jan. 4.

Pic has become one of the year's most successful Teutonic films, raking in nearly $40 million at the box office since bowing Sept. 16.


Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:53 pm
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The Downfall Trailer:

http://trailer.constantin-trailer.de/tr ... ganggr.mov


It is in German, but I think it is still worth a look.

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I'll have it at home but I just don't come around seeing it. :?


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Riggs27 wrote:
I'll have it at home but I just don't come around seeing it. :?


That's too bad, it's really a great movie.

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Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:31 pm
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US Offical site URL: http://www.downfallthefilm.com/
The site will be opened.

tentative playdate
02/18/05 Film Forum - New York, NY

02/25/05 Landmark Cecchi Gori Fine Arts - Beverly Hills, CA


Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:02 am
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It's just nominated for 3 International Film Awards, including Best Picture.

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xiayun wrote:
It's just nominated for 3 International Film Awards, including Best Picture.


Interesting...I have never heard of these awards before, but I can't imagine a competitor that would be more deserving. This movie is REALLY good.

Here are the first RT reviews:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/downfal ... ird_reich/

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Dr. Lecter wrote:
xiayun wrote:
It's just nominated for 3 International Film Awards, including Best Picture.


Interesting...I have never heard of these awards before, but I can't imagine a competitor that would be more deserving. This movie is REALLY good.

Here are the first RT reviews:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/downfal ... ird_reich/


I guess I should finally see this one. Yesterday I saw a preview DVD lying on my colleague's desk. I think I can sneak it out of there after my holidays...


Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:52 am
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You really won't regret it :)

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Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:20 am
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Now that it has been nominated for the Best Foreign Picture Oscar, I can only hope it'll get more people to check it out in theatres once it comes out in some weeks. :D

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Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:37 pm
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The US-trailer is finally online:

http://prog.videorelay.com/webflow/down ... l-high.mov

I suggest you guys to check it out :) Not as good as the international one, but still.

The film still stands at 100% and an average rating of 9/10 at RT with a couple of new reviews in:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/downfal ... ird_reich/

Shouldn't finish below 90%, I think.

The movie's out in 11 days in the USA and my hopes are that you folks will eventually check it out in theatres when it goes wider.

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Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:21 pm
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Well it's playing in 9 theatres in the USA already, so I thought maybe some of you had a chance to check it out....

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Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:26 am
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Crap, I was over at RT and kept running searches to see if a theater near me was playing it. For two weeks it said no and I couldn't believe it since NYC, L.A., etc are always the ones that get the small openings. So today I googled around and found it was playing at Film Forum, which must not submit its schedule to RT. I've been thinking I missed it for awhile already. Good to know its still playing here.


Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:04 pm
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It did well its opening weekend but looks as though it may not hold up so well. I doubt it will play near me unless they do a massive expansion. As such I will probably be waiting for the DVD.

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Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:52 pm
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