Thegun wrote:
Or suggest a 3 way, that way you at least have a witness!
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| If a man and a woman are both drunk... http://www.worldofkj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=81820 |
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| Author: | zwackerm [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
And they have sex consensually, could the woman decide afterward that she did not want to have sex and that she was raped because she was drunk and could not give real consent? |
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| Author: | Jiffy [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
This seems like one of those gray areas where there can be difficulty ascribing any malicious intent... although I can see why there may be a presumption that any male participating in sexual activity can't be THAT inebriated (to the point of precluding consent). If a guy is to the point where he's blackout drunk (or near it), I don't know how likely it is that he's still capable of functioning sexually (maybe it's more likely than I'd think?). That being said, I absolutely do believe that women can sexually assault men. |
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| Author: | Groucho [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Is there a specific reason you're asking this on New Year's Eve? |
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| Author: | Shack [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Wouldn't he be able to accuse her of rape back? |
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| Author: | Thegun [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Never has happened to me so I can't really comment. Zwacks seriously, I see this as the scene in 40 year old virgin when Andy hits on the passed out girl at the club. Use your judgment, and if you're seriously that paranoid over it, hit record on your microphone of your phone before you start. Or suggest a 3 way, that way you at least have a witness! |
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| Author: | Jiffy [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Thegun wrote: Or suggest a 3 way, that way you at least have a witness!
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| Author: | Algren [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
zwackerm wrote: And they have sex consensually, could the woman decide afterward that she did not want to have sex and that she was raped because she was drunk and could not give real consent? Yes, of course. This happens, like, all the fucking time. |
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| Author: | zwackerm [ Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Groucho wrote: Is there a specific reason you're asking this on New Year's Eve? Of course, I'm getting it on! Just kidding. I'm simply curious ever since the "you cannot give consent while drunk!" talk at school. |
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| Author: | Thegun [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Thats mostly scare tactics from teachers. Though 10 years ago our talks were all about the STDs and condoms don't always work thing. Only real advice is use common sense, and don't take advantage of a girl. You will never have a "Law and Order SVU" type scenario. Man, next your going to ask about pregnancy scares and STDS. I know it's coming. |
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| Author: | FILMO [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
zwackerm wrote: And they have sex consensually, could the woman decide afterward that she did not want to have sex and that she was raped because she was drunk and could not give real consent? here zwackerm. I made some research for you. In this video is all you need to know! |
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| Author: | Groucho [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Having represented many juveniles and adults in this kind of situation (in fact, I have a case about this now), here's my advice: Assume NO consent unless it's so blatant you can't deny it. Example one: You're at a party, you meet a girl, you're drunk she's drunk, you have sex, even though she never technically says either yes or no. BAD IDEA. Why take the risk that she won't later claim it was non-consensual? Example two: You and your girlfriend you've been dating for months get drunk and have sex, just like you've had sex before, even though she didn't specifically say no. You're pretty safe there. |
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| Author: | Dr. Lecter [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Groucho wrote: Having represented many juveniles and adults in this kind of situation (in fact, I have a case about this now), here's my advice: Assume NO consent unless it's so blatant you can't deny it. Example one: You're at a party, you meet a girl, you're drunk she's drunk, you have sex, even though she never technically says either yes or no. BAD IDEA. Why take the risk that she won't later claim it was non-consensual? Example two: You and your girlfriend you've been dating for months get drunk and have sex, just like you've had sex before, even though she didn't specifically say no. You're pretty safe there. In example one, could the guy also claim it wasn't consensual and he was raped? |
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| Author: | FILMO [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Dr. Lecter wrote: Groucho wrote: Having represented many juveniles and adults in this kind of situation (in fact, I have a case about this now), here's my advice: Assume NO consent unless it's so blatant you can't deny it. Example one: You're at a party, you meet a girl, you're drunk she's drunk, you have sex, even though she never technically says either yes or no. BAD IDEA. Why take the risk that she won't later claim it was non-consensual? Example two: You and your girlfriend you've been dating for months get drunk and have sex, just like you've had sex before, even though she didn't specifically say no. You're pretty safe there. In example one, could the guy also claim it wasn't consensual and he was raped? I guess he can. But the question will be if he is really taken seriously. |
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| Author: | Jiffy [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Dr. Lecter wrote: Groucho wrote: Having represented many juveniles and adults in this kind of situation (in fact, I have a case about this now), here's my advice: Assume NO consent unless it's so blatant you can't deny it. Example one: You're at a party, you meet a girl, you're drunk she's drunk, you have sex, even though she never technically says either yes or no. BAD IDEA. Why take the risk that she won't later claim it was non-consensual? Example two: You and your girlfriend you've been dating for months get drunk and have sex, just like you've had sex before, even though she didn't specifically say no. You're pretty safe there. In example one, could the guy also claim it wasn't consensual and he was raped? Since guys are more likely to assume an active role (as compared to the female's passive role) in that situation, I'm not sure you can make a good case for non-consent. It's the distinction between being the one who sticks it in and being the one who lies back and has it stuck in them (in which case inebriation can diminish a person's ability to object to the act). |
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| Author: | Dr. Lecter [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Jiffy wrote: Dr. Lecter wrote: Groucho wrote: Having represented many juveniles and adults in this kind of situation (in fact, I have a case about this now), here's my advice: Assume NO consent unless it's so blatant you can't deny it. Example one: You're at a party, you meet a girl, you're drunk she's drunk, you have sex, even though she never technically says either yes or no. BAD IDEA. Why take the risk that she won't later claim it was non-consensual? Example two: You and your girlfriend you've been dating for months get drunk and have sex, just like you've had sex before, even though she didn't specifically say no. You're pretty safe there. In example one, could the guy also claim it wasn't consensual and he was raped? Since guys are more likely to assume an active role (as compared to the female's passive role) in that situation, I'm not sure you can make a good case for non-consent. It's the distinction between being the one who sticks it in and being the one who lies back and has it stuck in them (in which case inebriation can diminish a person's ability to object to the act). Faulty logic, though. She could pull your pants down and start blowing you. That is sexual assault if you didn't want it. If a guy did this to another guy, that would certainly count as sexual assault. |
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| Author: | Jiffy [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Dr. Lecter wrote: Jiffy wrote: Dr. Lecter wrote: Groucho wrote: Having represented many juveniles and adults in this kind of situation (in fact, I have a case about this now), here's my advice: Assume NO consent unless it's so blatant you can't deny it. Example one: You're at a party, you meet a girl, you're drunk she's drunk, you have sex, even though she never technically says either yes or no. BAD IDEA. Why take the risk that she won't later claim it was non-consensual? Example two: You and your girlfriend you've been dating for months get drunk and have sex, just like you've had sex before, even though she didn't specifically say no. You're pretty safe there. In example one, could the guy also claim it wasn't consensual and he was raped? Since guys are more likely to assume an active role (as compared to the female's passive role) in that situation, I'm not sure you can make a good case for non-consent. It's the distinction between being the one who sticks it in and being the one who lies back and has it stuck in them (in which case inebriation can diminish a person's ability to object to the act). Faulty logic, though. She could pull your pants down and start blowing you. That is sexual assault if you didn't want it. If a guy did this to another guy, that would certainly count as sexual assault. I don't disagree at all, I'm just suggesting why there may be a prejudice against any guy's claim to non-consent since males are stereotypically characterized as the pursuer / aggressor in most sexual situations. |
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| Author: | Groucho [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Dr. Lecter wrote: In example one, could the guy also claim it wasn't consensual and he was raped? People can claim anything they want, yes. The issue is whether people believe them. But why risk it? Why risk having the police investigate it, and maybe have a DA say "Well, I don't know if this person is lying or not, so I'll take it to a jury and let them decide." Even if you're not guilty, that doesn't mean a jury will find you not guilty. |
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| Author: | Groucho [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Jiffy wrote: I don't disagree at all, I'm just suggesting why there may be a prejudice against any guy's claim to non-consent since males are stereotypically characterized as the pursuer / aggressor in most sexual situations. I had a case a few years ago where the girl went to the guy's house, crawled into bed with him, and started having sex. He stopped it after a short while because he found it creepy -- since he hardly knew the girl. She went home, her mother got mad at her for being late, she told her mother she had sex with the guy and then he's charged with statutory rape (because she was underage). Took it to trial and won. Not guilty. But the guy had to be arrested, go through the whole thing, be covered in the media and everything. Moral of the story? I don't know, other than only have sex with people you know and are sure aren't crazy and are absolutely consenting. Here's the newspaper article about the trial if you're interested: https://mikeventrella.com/newspaper-art ... rape-case/ |
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| Author: | Dr. Lecter [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Groucho wrote: Dr. Lecter wrote: In example one, could the guy also claim it wasn't consensual and he was raped? People can claim anything they want, yes. The issue is whether people believe them. But why risk it? Why risk having the police investigate it, and maybe have a DA say "Well, I don't know if this person is lying or not, so I'll take it to a jury and let them decide." Even if you're not guilty, that doesn't mean a jury will find you not guilty. All true. But in the end, even with spoken consent, if you do not have witnesses, it comes down to the same. Let's take your example: both are drunk, he explicitely asks her if she wants to have sex and she says yes. But then still goes on to claim that she has never said yes and has been raped. And unless the guy has recorded it, this situation is no different from the one where no consent was given (from the legal standpoint). |
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| Author: | FILMO [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Well then the guy is fucked when there are no huge plot holes in her story or she admits to be a lair. |
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| Author: | Thegun [ Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
It's not a rape thread, Zwacks is just asking if he can get away with it |
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| Author: | zwackerm [ Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Aw shit! He pressed charges! I've been taken into custody and I await trial. 
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| Author: | Thegun [ Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
zwackerm wrote: Aw shit! He pressed charges! I've been taken into custody and I await trial. I had a feeling that might happen this year. |
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| Author: | Dr. Lecter [ Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Shit, zwack, you coming out? |
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| Author: | zwackerm [ Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: If a man and a woman are both drunk... |
Lol, that was a typeo/autocorrect. But I'm not sure some of you will believe I am straight until I am 75 years old. |
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