David wrote:
And for this I am grateful. The world tends to go sideways when Germany has too many resources.
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| Author: | i.hope [ Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | International spying: Germans "in bed with" NSA |
The latest round of leaks revealed the US bugged European Union offices, gained access to EU internal computer networks, and tapped half a billion phone calls, emails and text messages in Germany in a typical month. In response to the revelations, a spokesperson from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said on Sunday, "While we are not going to comment publicly on specific alleged intelligence activities, as a matter of policy we have made clear that the United States gathers foreign intelligence of the type gathered by all nations." If what was said is true, international spying is common and possibly a mutually assured practice. Nations have been spying on each other and are well aware of being spied on. So the outrage among the EU elites is more a political gesture than a substantive denouncement. What is your take on this? Is the US the only "bad guy" here? Are people overreacting over this? Are you okay with international spying as a common practice? |
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| Author: | David [ Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? |
I imagine every nation with the capability of gathering intelligence regarding their peers and competitors through subterfuge does so. The same goes for major corporations. |
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| Author: | Dr. Lecter [ Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? |
Okay, so my take on it is this: If Germany had the same capabilities and resources as the US to do that, I have absolutely no doubt that they would do it. However, I do not believe that we do have this degree of resources and thus are probably not doing it to that extent at least. |
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| Author: | David [ Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? |
And for this I am grateful. The world tends to go sideways when Germany has too many resources. |
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| Author: | i.hope [ Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? |
It's never a level playing field. The US and its Anglo-Saxon English-speaking allies probably have more capabilities and resources in terms of military and surveillance power than the rest of the world combined. Here comes the question: would we rather see a monopolistic power (like the Anglo-Saxon states) or a bipolar/multipolar world (US, EU, China-Russia) dictating international agendas? Do we have a third choice? |
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| Author: | David [ Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? |
I want the U.S. and Britain to set the international agenda. |
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| Author: | nghtvsn [ Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? |
I really don't care about international spying because we all know every country that's capable of spying does it. It's been going on since the beginning of nation states. They send out spies to infiltrate the "enemy" and gather intelligence. All these types of releases are doing is just embarrassing the US and makes us hypocritical when we complain about other countries that do it. I'm more interested in more detailed documents about domestic spying. This may the norm today but let's recall that this endless spy grid did nothing to stop the Boston bombers. Just spill the beans on what a few senators and congressmen have been googling and doing in their spare time. That's what I want. |
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| Author: | i.hope [ Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? |
Quote: America's National Security Agency works closely with Germany and other Western states on a 'no questions asked'-basis, former NSA employee Edward Snowden said in comments that undermine Chancellor Angela Merkel's indignant talk of "Cold War" tactics. "They are in bed with the Germans, just like with most other Western states," German magazine Der Spiegel quotes him as saying in an interview published on Sunday that was carried out before he fled to Hong Kong in May and divulged details of extensive secret U.S. surveillance. "Other agencies don't ask us where we got the information from and we don't ask them. That way they can protect their top politicians from the backlash in case it emerges how massively people's privacy is abused worldwide," he said. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/07/us-usa-security-germany-idUSBRE9660C020130707 German Chancellor Angela Merkel's response: Quote: “The work of intelligence agencies in democratic states was always vital to the safety of citizens and will remain so in the future,” Ms. Merkel was quoted as saying in an interview published Thursday in the newspaper Die Zeit. “For me, there is absolutely no comparison between the Stasi in East Germany and the work of intelligence services in democratic states,” she added, calling the programs “two totally different things.” http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/12/world/europe/merkel-seems-to-weather-german-anger-over-nsa-spying.html?_r=0 Allied countries do share intelligence. But the people should have a say about how far intelligence gathering can go without an abusive level of privacy intrusion. So German officials were merely posturing when they decried NSA's Prism. Were people in Germany kept in the dark about their country's co-op with the US intelligence? |
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| Author: | Algren [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? |
David wrote: And for this I am grateful. The world tends to go sideways when Germany has too many resources.
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| Author: | Dr. Lecter [ Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? |
David wrote: And for this I am grateful. The world tends to go sideways when Germany has too many resources. I will castrate you. |
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| Author: | Darth Indiana Bond [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: International spying: what is the whole picture? |
Dr. Lecter wrote: David wrote: And for this I am grateful. The world tends to go sideways when Germany has too many resources. Fixed |
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| Author: | Rev [ Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: International spying: Germans "in bed with" NSA |
 Oh Germany 
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