for a second there i thought theres was going to be drama and fighting in this thread, but its only a news articule!
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| Gotta get them gays out! http://www.worldofkj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1988 |
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| Author: | lovemerox [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Gotta get them gays out! |
Quote: PUGHTOWN, Pa. - The United Methodist Church defrocked a lesbian minister who lives with her partner Thursday for violating the denomination's ban on actively gay clergy  the first such decision by the church in 17 years. A 13-member jury made up of Methodist clergy convicted the Rev. Irene Elizabeth Stroud on the second day of her church trial. Methodist law bars "self-avowed, practicing homosexuals" from ministry. Nine votes were necessary for a conviction and the jury voted 12-1 to find Stroud guilty. It then voted 7-6 to defrock Stroud, the bare majority necessary in the penalty phase of the trial, though her supportive congregation in Philadelphia has said Stroud can continue performing most of her duties. "I did not go into this trial expecting to win," Stroud said. "I went into it knowing it would be a painful moment in the life of the United Methodist Church." http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... ts_gays_20 :sigh: |
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| Author: | matatonio [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:58 pm ] |
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for a second there i thought theres was going to be drama and fighting in this thread, but its only a news articule!
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| Author: | lovemerox [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:00 pm ] |
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I really wish Christian churches would learn to accept homosexuals. I think its sad that many times they are treated/looked at as evil...dirty...disgusting, ect. |
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| Author: | Eagle [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:05 pm ] |
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It is against their religion after all ... KJ |
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| Author: | Caius [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:06 pm ] |
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Lovemerox, would you suggest that the government force the Methodist Church to accept gays in ministerial roles? |
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| Author: | zingy [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:08 pm ] |
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They go by the book, so it's not like anything is going to change anytime soon. |
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| Author: | lovemerox [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:10 pm ] |
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KidRock69x wrote: Lovemerox, would you suggest that the government force the Methodist Church to accept gays in ministerial roles? No, why? |
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| Author: | lovemerox [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:10 pm ] |
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Eagle wrote: It is against their religion after all ... KJ I know, It just saddens me...thats all 
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| Author: | Caius [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:11 pm ] |
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lovemerox wrote: KidRock69x wrote: Lovemerox, would you suggest that the government force the Methodist Church to accept gays in ministerial roles? No, why? I just wondered. I'm glad of your answer. |
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| Author: | Rod [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:13 pm ] |
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Kinda OT, but: During last week's special on Matthew Shepard they had images of the people outside at his trial, and its nothing new to me but there were people with signs that said something like "Fags Die, God Smiles" I didn't know God was so sweet or I would've become religious so long ago 
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| Author: | lovemerox [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:15 pm ] |
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KidRock69x wrote: lovemerox wrote: KidRock69x wrote: Lovemerox, would you suggest that the government force the Methodist Church to accept gays in ministerial roles? No, why? I just wondered. I'm glad of your answer. More respect for me?
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| Author: | lovemerox [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:16 pm ] |
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Rod wrote: Kinda OT, but: During last week's special on Matthew Shepard they had images of the people outside at his trial, and its nothing new to me but there were people with signs that said something like "Fags Die, God Smiles" I didn't know God was so sweet or I would've become religious so long ago That is disgusting and those are the people who give Christians a HORRIBLE name |
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| Author: | makeshift [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:18 pm ] |
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Rod wrote: Kinda OT, but: During last week's special on Matthew Shepard they had images of the people outside at his trial, and its nothing new to me but there were people with signs that said something like "Fags Die, God Smiles" I didn't know God was so sweet or I would've become religious so long ago This kind of behavior is why i'll always say if Jesus were alive today, he'd hate Christians. |
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| Author: | lovemerox [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:22 pm ] |
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makeshift_wings wrote: Rod wrote: Kinda OT, but: During last week's special on Matthew Shepard they had images of the people outside at his trial, and its nothing new to me but there were people with signs that said something like "Fags Die, God Smiles" I didn't know God was so sweet or I would've become religious so long ago This kind of behavior is why i'll always say if Jesus were alive today, he'd hate Christians. Exactly, many christians are hateful and give off the wrong message of what christianity really is Check your PM makeshift |
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| Author: | Rod [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:26 pm ] |
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Ok, you guys know that I know not all Christians are the same, so when I refer to Christians I dont mean to generalize, it's just easier that way, right? 
... Those people really, make me feel something...surprise, disbelief, I dont know? Are they so stupid, so ignorant, or just hypocrits? Do they realize that that kind of behavior is the completel opposite of what Christianity teaches? Do they just look for the first excuse they can find for the actions? I jsut find it so disgusting. They call themselves religious, and they are doing what's right, but I don't know any religion that teaches hate. That says murder is ok. Isn't not judging others one of the big rules. What did Jesus do when he came across Mary Magdalene? WHY WHY WHY would they used God and religion as an excuse for something like that. Yeah, I know I've been through this issue before but it's so illogical to me. And I gues I'll keep wondering til I get answers, which is unlikely to happen. |
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| Author: | makeshift [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:32 pm ] |
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Rod wrote: Ok, you guys know that I know not all Christians are the same, so when I refer to Christians I dont mean to generalize, it's just easier that way, right? ... Those people really, make me feel something...surprise, disbelief, I dont know? Are they so stupid, so ignorant, or just hypocrits? Do they realize that that kind of behavior is the completel opposite of what Christianity teaches? Do they just look for the first excuse they can find for the actions? I jsut find it so disgusting. They call themselves religious, and they are doing what's right, but I don't know any religion that teaches hate. That says murder is ok. Isn't not judging others one of the big rules. What did Jesus do when he came across Mary Magdalene? WHY WHY WHY would they used God and religion as an excuse for something like that. Yeah, I know I've been through this issue before but it's so illogical to me. And I gues I'll keep wondering til I get answers, which is unlikely to happen. The thing with the hard right, and why they choose to force their superstitious believes on others, is because they honestly believe that if homosexulaity is "forced" upon the public and accepted as an okay thing, we're going to experience something like what happened in the Old Testament all over again (floods and plagues and all that good stuff). This is, of course, not the thought patterns of a sane person, but they actually believe this stuff. Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do to stop them but remind them that everytime they wish death on a "fag" or blow up a planned parenthood that Jesus would not approve, and is most certainly going to make them pay in the afterlife. |
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| Author: | Beeblebrox [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:56 pm ] |
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Rod wrote: Are they so stupid, so ignorant, or just hypocrits? Do they realize that that kind of behavior is the completel opposite of what Christianity teaches? Do they just look for the first excuse they can find for the actions? The world is full of people who believe something and THEN use the Bible to find a justification for it. I think anti-gay bigotry is one of those things. The Bible spends very little actual time on the issue, but you'd think homosexuality was the moral equivalent of murder. The Bible, for example, makes it quite clear that worshipping other gods is a major sin. It's the FIRST of the ten commandments. But you never hear them talk about outlawing that. |
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| Author: | dolcevita [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:20 pm ] |
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Rod wrote: Ok, you guys know that I know not all Christians are the same, so when I refer to Christians I dont mean to generalize, it's just easier that way, right? ... Those people really, make me feel something...surprise, disbelief, I dont know? Are they so stupid, so ignorant, or just hypocrits? Do they realize that that kind of behavior is the completel opposite of what Christianity teaches? Do they just look for the first excuse they can find for the actions? I jsut find it so disgusting. They call themselves religious, and they are doing what's right, but I don't know any religion that teaches hate. That says murder is ok. Isn't not judging others one of the big rules. What did Jesus do when he came across Mary Magdalene? WHY WHY WHY would they used God and religion as an excuse for something like that. Yeah, I know I've been through this issue before but it's so illogical to me. And I gues I'll keep wondering til I get answers, which is unlikely to happen. It has nothing to do with what he did when he came across the Magdalene, he was looking to bring people in. Its always different to be peripheral and recruit than to be in power and execute (I meant exclude). Anyways, if you really want to know the technicalities, I mentioned how Jesus and Magdalene (a by-product being all women) were interpretted after the effect.* Zingaling, to say they "Go by the book" fails to take into consideration that "The Book" was never so regularized. What do you think the '95 thesis was about? The split between the Othodox and the Roman Catholic even earlier. The Franciscans? The list goes on. Every group interprets it their own way, and as Beeble pointed out, that's when they're previously existing investments and language play out. The Bible changes all the time, or why would we have 50 different types of official churches? Why would we have three major religions branching out from the same Genesis? The people with those signs are just taking their desires and supporting them with divine claim. Its nothing new, everyone does it...hey, I just finished up a paper on how Joan of Arc did it to lead battles to restore Charles VII to the throne. People recruit God to their cause, and usually the first thing to go is the actual 10 commandments. Lets see, as Joan said in her first inquisition, "God helps those who help themselves." This idiots out by the side of the road are nothing new, I just wish they'd get over two paragraphs talking about a pillar of salt and read a little deeper into the incident. They'd realize it was about mistreating and violating guests, and failing to be a gracious host to those seeking help at your door. That's pretty much it. * http://www.worldofkj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1899&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60 wrote: The language itself, and any student of Latin will say this today, is dead. There are clearly nouns and adjectives that have more than one meaning in today’s languages, and were probably not direct crosses from the Greek (NT) and biblical Hebrew. So, going back to my example, in the original Greek of John's gospel "me mou uptou" translated in Latin as "Noli me tangere" ("Do not touch me" or "Do not cling to me," or several other translations) (John 20:17). Which in English can mean Do not cling to me. But these are not direct verb transfers, and even if they were, their interpretations are layered into the work... ...Also, and this applies for all, above translation there is also interpretation. The John quote is supposedly what Jesus calls out to the Magdalene as she tries to hold him/ pray. Now the three synoptic gospels interpreted the same remark as being an indication the Jesus thought Mary, being a woman, was not worthy of touching him, thus the eternal relegation of women to religious inferiority. The last of the Gospels, written much later, and only included in the NT after intense scholastic and religious debate, interpreted those same words as meaning Do not try to grasp at some physical aspect of me. As in, Jesus only exists in spirit, and for Mary to try and “cling†to his physical presence will impede spiritual faith (clearly Jesus, now form…in spirit). In this way, the section is interpreted as Mary, being the disciple to the disciples, leading the way in defining the emerging Christian faith in the second coming... |
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| Author: | makeshift [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:24 pm ] |
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Beeblebrox wrote: Rod wrote: Are they so stupid, so ignorant, or just hypocrits? Do they realize that that kind of behavior is the completel opposite of what Christianity teaches? Do they just look for the first excuse they can find for the actions? The world is full of people who believe something and THEN use the Bible to find a justification for it. I think anti-gay bigotry is one of those things. The Bible spends very little actual time on the issue, but you'd think homosexuality was the moral equivalent of murder. The Bible, for example, makes it quite clear that worshipping other gods is a major sin. It's the FIRST of the ten commandments. But you never hear them talk about outlawing that. This is so true. I believe the act of homosexuality is mentioned twice in the bible, and it's just a sort of fleeting thing. But, like you said, the way Christians act about it you'd think it were a ten commandment. |
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| Author: | Algren [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:33 pm ] |
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She knew what the christian church feels towards homosexuals, so it is her fault really. |
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| Author: | Beeblebrox [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:36 pm ] |
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Algren wrote: She knew what the christian church feels towards homosexuals, so it is her fault really. Martin Luther King, Jr knew how southerners felt about blacks. So it's really his fault he got shot. Is that the logic here? |
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| Author: | lovemerox [ Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:48 pm ] |
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Beeblebrox wrote: Algren wrote: She knew what the christian church feels towards homosexuals, so it is her fault really. Martin Luther King, Jr knew how southerners felt about blacks. So it's really his fault he got shot. Is that the logic here? No, there really isn't |
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| Author: | Caius [ Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:26 am ] |
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Beeblebrox wrote: Algren wrote: She knew what the christian church feels towards homosexuals, so it is her fault really. Martin Luther King, Jr knew how southerners felt about blacks. So it's really his fault he got shot. Is that the logic here? |
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| Author: | A. G. [ Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:35 am ] |
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This doesn't bother me, it's a private religious thing. |
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| Author: | Anonymous [ Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:39 am ] |
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The Presbyterian church where my mom works used to have a closeted lesbian minister. When she came out of the closet she was forced to retire, and many people wrote letters to the church saying that they won't donate anymore. That still didin't stop them from accomplishing a 5-year $5 million pledge drive in 6 months 
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