Isolated incidents? Just because you've only heard about a few does not make these isolated. There is a pattern that has been on display for many, many years.

I'm not the one that doesn't see the world as grey. You and Jacko seem to think it's black and white.

Actually it is illegal, it is usually against police policy unless some incidents happen.

Also technically the officer in the back did it, as Garner was fighting or resisting or technically assaulting the officer from the front.

"She deserved to be raped because she was drunk and wearing a short skirt"

The Garner thing is not as crazy as Wilson. Wrong or not, it shouldn't be surprising that a cop killing someone by not following training properly, gets treated by him losing his job not manslaughter jail time. With Wilson the possibility of an execution was there so a trial had to happen

Not even close to being the same.

I do not buy into the notion the police as a singular force are trying to disrupt and undermine the African American community at every turn.

I see the Michael Brown case, and I see the Eric Garner case, and I see, yes, isolated incidents with their own circumstances, details, etc.

David,

He was upset because he feels he's being taken to jail unfairly. I have no interest in if he was right or wrong, what's clear is he is angry. Not aggressive, violent, or posing any threat, just angry. I don't ever see officers make it clear he's under arrest, and they certainly failed at calming him down. When they close in, he says don't touch me. He never makes any aggressive moves toward them, just wiggles his arm free. The INSTANT the officer gets violent and significantly escalates the situation, and make no mistake, the choke hold is a violent escalation when no one was in any danger, Garner's hands go up and any sign of resistance is done.

At this point, my contention is that when he wiggles his arms away the cops should step back and loudly and authoritatively say to get up against the wall with his hands behind his back or he'll be charged with resisting arrest. They choose to escalate violently instead as they're trained.

He's not resisting anything after they start choking him, and he's now taken to the ground. The man soon after starts saying "I can't breath". At this point, you can hear cops saying "OK, he's down, he's down", but the officer who escalated things initially continues to be overly aggressive, pushing the mans head into the pavement with a knee into his back. Someone is repeating "I can't breath" and the officer doesn't even consider that maybe he shouldn't be pushing his face into the pavement.

This man made not one violent gesture toward the police, all escalation was on their part, they need to go above and beyond to avoid such a violent encounter, especially when there is no apparent risk to them, but sadly, they're trained to act in this manner. This is common across the country.

Maybe you need to look up the definition of Involuntary Manslaughter, but in general it's a crime where the victim's death was totally unintended. The act has to result in death, the manner used to kill them has to be dangerous (violent choke hold, check), the defendant should have reasonably known the act was dangerous (trained not to do it, check).

He didn't murder him, but his actions led to his death. In this case, there is at least enough evidence to take it to court and let the justice system determine if the choke hold was violent enough to be considered dangerous, and if he was trained on the danger he was causing.

In NY, this is called first-degree manslaughter. Do I think he would or should be convicted, no. Do I think it should have gone to trial, yes.

Nice writing. You are wrong, though. They approach him to arrest him. He begins to throw himself around and shove them. These are escalating violent gestures on his part, and the police respond to subdue him. After he became violent, I do not feel they needed to step away and give more orders. He already illustrated his reluctance to listen to them, as well as his volatility.

You seem to almost regard the police approaching him, however calmly and directly, as a violent act.

No, I regard someone jumping on his back and throwing their arm around his neck as a violent act. You seem to regard him swinging his arms away as a violent gesture. Which is worse? Swinging your arm harmlessly away, or jumping on someone's back and putting them in a choke hold?

In the video, he says that this harassment is stopping today.

He knew they caught him doing something illegal and he was just BS him.

After all, the cops gave him enough time to speak before trying to arrest him.

To be honest, I also find it absurd the NYPD advises against certain movements when an officer is fighting to protect himself and subdue a suspect. NO TOUCHING OR HOLDING OF THE NECK!

As if this were Greco-Roman wrestling or a gentleman's boxing match, nicely regulated and refereed.

If he had submitted to the arrest instead of becoming disruptive and violent, the choke hold would never have happened.

He first put his hands up, trying to resist arrest and then the officer took him from behind.

And he had to jump on his back as he was bigger than him.

Maybe they should have just stun gunned him or hit him with a Billie clubbed him, to get him down? Rather than just jumping on his back.

I find it absurd that this level of violence is deemed acceptable by our culture. Because despite me disagreeing with you David, I think if it were put to a majority vote, I'd be on the lesser populated side. I think it's very telling, I think the value placed on life has never been lower, and I can't say enough how much I think it needs to change.

In an alternate universe, a solitary policeman tried to arrest Eric Garner. A fight ensued, and the cop shot him. And now alternate-universe Eagle is saying, "Shit, should have called for backup and wrestled him to the ground and put him in a choke hold."

If an unarmed Garner ended up dead because of a similar situation, you're right, I wouldn't agree with that either.

Full disclosure... I hadn't watched the video until right now.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME.

Fuck that officer.

I guess gesturing with your hands is now punishable by death, if you're a black person in America.

Also I bet if it was put to a vote, the majority of people would say that you follow the orders of the police, and you never touch an officer.

Two are unfortunately dead because of not following those simple rules of common sense, that the majority sure know.

Wow, you did so much talking before even watching the video.

And now, you are still shoveling the shit, after finally watching it.

Again, it's seriously disturbing that you equate disobedience with the absolution of subsequent death.

He showed no violence or intent to harm any officer. What that officer did was unacceptable, not only as an officer, but as a human being.

What a fucking joke.

This is so, so, so much worse than the Ferguson situation. You had ground to stand on there, with him acting violent and reaching for the officer's weapon.

Here? Fuck you, you pieces of shit. He raised his hands when they grabbed him. Nothing more. And then an IMMEDIATE choke hold. Which DIRECTLY killed him. And which was CORRECTLY ruled as a HOMICIDE.

Chip,

I personally see it as an issue with the nations culture, the acceptance of violence, and the manner which police resort to it. David is right to call me out when it comes to my rainbow and unicorns belief that these situations can be resolved peacefully. Within our current culture, the pendulum swings in favor of police safety, I believe way too far, but in our culture my ideals are at best a reasonable fantasy. Significant changes are needed before anything nearing my ideals are possible.

I also don't believe within our current laws that this officer would or should be convicted. Should he be tried? Yes, there's enough evidence to look further into this case, but not enough to convict. I think this points back to the same issue, our culture accepts this behavior, as do our laws. I find it reprehensible.